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Old 05-06-2015, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,785 posts, read 37,769,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCassidy View Post
I support French only sign laws, but I still come under fire as being an angryphone.
Awwww.

Acajack (hearts) MattCassidy!
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:02 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,087,305 times
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Its a derogatory term that francophones like to use to describe any Anglo who has issue with Quebecs draconian language laws, guess they figure we arent going to speak up over perceived linguistic injustices and we are just going to meekly accept the curtailment of our civil liberties.
Kinda reminds me of an old saying from StarTrek
We Are the Quebec government. You Will be Assimilated. Resistance is Futile.
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Old 05-18-2015, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,785 posts, read 37,769,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
I don't know Castleman's bylaws, but I do know that if an Algonquin in Gatineau should put up a sign in Algonquin first followed by French, and both of the same size, that that would be in violation of Quebec's French Language Charter. I can see only three reasons for that:

1. Quebec perceives Algonquin to be a threat to the French language in Gatineau, or at least to Quebec's identity as an officially exclusively French province;

2. Quebec intends to ensure French dominates over Algonquin for the purpose of assimilation; or

3. Expressing the local indigenous language on equal terms offends Quebec's European sentiments as a province that officially identifies itself as linguistically exclusively French.

There may be other reasons, but those are the only three that come to my mind.

Communication is clearly not at play here sinse including French of the same size, even if in second place, would fulfil the communicative necessity effectively enough.

A governnent should have an official language of internal government administration and an official policy pertaining to second-language instruction in universal compulsory education, but its language policies should not extend far beyond that. Too far beyond that starts to delve less into language policy for the purpose of communication and into the realm of ethnic identity politics
You and I both know full well this is not about Algonquin in Gatineau. And there are almost no Algonquin speakers in Gatineau anyway.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You and I both know full well this is not about Algonquin in Gatineau. And there are almost no Algonquin speakers in Gatineau anyway.
I think Machjo was using Algonquin merely as an example of Quebecs idiotic language laws.you could insert any other cultural demographic in place of "Algonquin" to make the point.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,785 posts, read 37,769,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
So do you agree that they should not be allowed to put a sign up in Algonquin first followed by French in the same size? And if so, why? If it has nothing to do with Algonquin in Gatineau, then why did the law apply to it too? Also, are you implying that whenever the demographic is small, its language ought to be restricted? I'm pretty sure that is not what you meant, but I'm also sure you can see how I could come to such a conclusion if I took your words at face value.
I believe there are exceptions for aboriginal languages (as well as for specific ethnic neighbourhoods) like Chinatown, etc. in the law or at least in the application of the law.

As I am not the legislator, what I think doesn't matter but I don't have any issue with signs in, hmm... Algonquin.

If anything I think French should probably be restricted in aboriginal communities in Quebec like Wendake, Odanak, Maliotenam, etc. But it's up to the people there to decide of course.
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Old 05-19-2015, 11:51 AM
 
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My future spouse is from Quebec and when I move there in the future I don't want to see any English signs at all even though I only know few words of French. I would like to feel being in France or Belgium, and want to learn French faster as soon as possible. English is on packages, enough.
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Old 05-19-2015, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,785 posts, read 37,769,583 times
Reputation: 11561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
I'm presently in Shenzhen and might be moving to Hong Kong in a few years' time. I want all signs in Ottawa to be in Chinese only, first in simplified characters followed by pinyin. That way I could improve my Chinese faster and feel more like I'm in Hong Kong rather than on North American soil with its own indigenous cultures. What Do You think? Chinese only in Ottawa, good idea? Wanna sign my petition?
That's silly. What he is asking for is like asking for more Chinese in Hong Kong not Ottawa.
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Old 05-19-2015, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
26,785 posts, read 37,769,583 times
Reputation: 11561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
But that is based on the assumption that Quebec is French-speaking through and through. Quebec has never in its recorded history been unilingual, let alone unilingually French. Neither had either Lower Canada nor New France been so. Even the Six Nations Confederacy was multilingual. To say or even imply that Quebec is or ever had been French-speaking throughout would be historical revisionism and be even presently false. Consider some English-speaking suburbs of Montreal, Northern Quebec, the Deaf and Quebec Sign Language, etc.

My intent in that post was that Quebec is no more unilingually French than Ottawa is unilingual Chinese. But sure, English in Ontario might be a better equivalent. To say only English-language signs ought to be allowed in Ontario would imply that Ontario is unilingually English speaking, which also has never been true. Prior to WWI, Germans could send their children to school in German in Berlin Ontario, now Kitchener-Waterloo. We witness the same kind of historical revisionism among Canadian Britainists who say Canada is a British country and dualists who promote the idea of "two founding races" as we do in Quebec with the proponents of a mythological exclusively French-speaking Quebec of some romantic past and dualists of their own.
We are largely on the same page. That said, at this point in history pushing more English in Quebec is definitely not pro-diversity. No matter what some want us to think.
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:05 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,087,305 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by MX City visiting View Post
My future spouse is from Quebec and when I move there in the future I don't want to see any English signs at all even though I only know few words of French. I would like to feel being in France or Belgium, and want to learn French faster as soon as possible. English is on packages, enough.
Come to Quebec and your dreams of no English will come true, although with your total lack of French your desire for no English might become a hindrance like when you go for your first job interview and the interviewer speaks no English..
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Old 05-20-2015, 01:15 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,087,305 times
Reputation: 30999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machjo View Post
That's why it surprises me that even majority PQ governments defend compulsory English as a second language. I can understand making a second language compulsory, but why English in particular? Why not let schools teach and students be tested in the language of their choice within certain reasonable patameters as is the case in many jurisdictions worldwide, especially Hungary which allows a wide diversity of languages from which to choose.

To make English compulsory and then try to control it is like throwing wood and water on the fire or stepping on the gas pedal and the brake pedal at the same time. It just makes no rational sense. It's creating then trying to fix one's own problem. What kind of competent government actively creates its own problem to fix?

While the Quebec government may have English as a compulsory second language its really not taken very seriously as a francophone student may get an hour or two per week of English instruction depending on the school.
Whereas my 2 Anglo kids who went to the local English school did kindergarten to grade 5 80% in French then 60% French from grade 5 till they completed high school.As a result they are both fully bilingual their neighborhood francophone friends generally not so bilingual.
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