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I become so sad when I hear people say things like this, like my people never even existed, despite such a storied history. In my own country, in BC, I hear things like this. The English speaking community with which I identify culturally has been in Montreal for 250 years. We are not foreigners, and I spit on the separatists for not constructing an idea of nationalism that could include and accept that reality. Hell, if they could, I wouldn't care so much to fight that ideology.
Hate to tell you this BB but English in Quebec is being wiped out, even the vestiges of its (Anglo)past relevance are being eliminated by changing English names to French names,
The Anglo demographic has become tired of living in a place they arent wanted or welcomed, many have moved or will move if opportunity arises, most now realize Quebec separation is inevitable...
BB how long has it been since you've been in Quebec? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...poll-1.1321552
Montreal is officially French speaking city. English is a minority language, and yes foreign.
I actually believe quite strongly that Montreal should remain a city that functions predominantly in French, but to say that English is a foreign language there makes absolutely no sense.
Montreal is legitimately a francophone city, but in the way that Ottawa is an anglophone city. Which is to say that the presence of the minority language cannot be off-handedly discounted.
Hate to tell you this BB but English in Quebec is being wiped out, even the vestiges of its (Anglo)past relevance are being eliminated by changing English names to French names,
The Anglo demographic has become tired of living in a place they arent wanted or welcomed, many have moved or will move if opportunity arises, most now realize Quebec separation is inevitable...
BB how long has it been since you've been in Quebec? 42% of Anglos considered leaving Quebec post PQ win: poll - Montreal - CBC News
Yeah Jambo, you don't always have to repeat it, and if we're being perfectly frank here Boomers have way more angst about the whole business then Millenials do, which isn't to say we're indifferent. I last lived in Quebec on a permanent basis two years ago and I live there for several months each year. I will tell you that feeling unwelcome and unwanted by the wider society was a major deciding factor in my leaving Quebec, but I am entertaining an eventual return. For my own profession, prospects are much better in Quebec. But I have yet to make a decision.
If you wonder at my snippy attitude when you start on this it's because I grew up surrounded by an older generation so filled with that same bitter, defeatist, petty ill will and I find it toxic, a poison to our community. I won't try to argue you out of it though, I know it's etched onto your soul permanently, as it is etched into the souls of my parents and practically everyone they knew, and in some ways deep down in mine as well. I find it an obstacle to move past, to clear my mind of emotions that can make it irrational, but I'll never be able to change the minds of older people who have spent so many years with it that it's too much a part of what makes you all who you are. I'll never pull that darkness from my parents or any of the others who have felt deeply hurt and humiliated in a thousand ways over the course of their lives and see only indifference and no understanding from friends, colleagues, and neighbours in the other community. But it truly must be overcome if Quebec is ever to become to achieve it's true potential. And that knee jerk thought you just had that you don't want it to achieve it's potential, and that you want it to suffer for the pain this society has inflicted on you? That precisely why I'm snippy and precisely why that pain needs to die with the passing of the generations.
This is a discussion forum and as such the Quebec situation from an Anglo perspective is a viable topic.
You may not have a problem having a provincial government dictating all manner of linguistic rules you are legally required to comply with or a concerted effort from the government to eliminate your Anglo culture, i do have a problem with it and express myself on the issue frequently, the result is i'm viewed by some as some crazy fringe Anglophone or a part of some older generation so filled with toxic,bitter, defeatist, petty ill will that i'm evidently a poison to our community. Really? and you wonder why i'm planning on leaving? Seems you castigate the boomers and your parents for their ingrained attitudes on the Quebec situation but it also seems you have also developed some ingrained negativities of your own on the issue.
BB you c'mon back to Quebec and live your Anglo life here as an unwanted minority, and when Quebec finally succeeds in its eventual separation you can dance in the streets with the rest of the separatists.
PS, what in your estimation is Quebec's true potential?
This is a discussion forum and as such the Quebec situation from an Anglo perspective is a viable topic. You may not have a problem having a provincial government dictating all manner of linguistic rules you are legally required to comply with or a concerted effort from the government to eliminate your Anglo culture, i do have a problem with it and express myself on the issue frequently, the result is i'm viewed by some as some crazy fringe Anglophone or a part of some older generation so filled with toxic,bitter, defeatist, petty ill will that i'm evidently a poison to our community. Really? and you wonder why i'm planning on leaving? Seems you castigate the boomers and your parents for their ingrained attitudes on the Quebec situation but it also seems you have also developed some ingrained negativities of your own on the issue.
BB you c'mon back to Quebec and live your Anglo life here as an unwanted minority, and when Quebec finally succeeds in its eventual separation you can dance in the streets with the rest of the separatists.
PS, what in your estimation is Quebec's true potential?
And this is why most people don't take people like you seriously anymore.
Because he never said that at all.
You keep impugning motives on people based on your assumptions.
It's like telling someone: "Hitler was a fan of Bayern Munchen, and so are you, so I guess you must be a Hitler sympathizer..."
And this is why most people don't take people like you seriously anymore.
Because he never said that at all.
You keep impugning motives on people based on your assumptions.
It's like telling someone: "Hitler was a fan of Bayern Munchen, and so are you, so I guess you must be a Hitler sympathizer..."
I dont really care what you think about me but its obvious you like your English people to be quiet and submissive and kowtow to all of Quebecs absurd demands. ..
As for impugning motives on people based on assumptions?.AJ are you saying BB never said this?
Quote:
I grew up surrounded by an older generation so filled with that same bitter, defeatist, petty ill will and I find it toxic, a poison to our community.
A veritable poison to our community?For my merely speaking up against Quebecs repressive language laws,,
It's not the speaking up that's a problem, I applaud that. The PQ needs to be opposed vigourously. It's the (perhaps justified) hate behind it that is spiritually damaging. If you look at other inter-ethnic conflicts, what attitudes were truly transformative in a positive way? The anger of the forgotten Indian revolutionaries, or the love of Ghandi? Quite the contrary, I think the cynicism of our community and the ill will we bear the greater society is precisely what has kept us from doing what needs to be done, from integrating to the point where we can aggressively spread alternate, inclusive visions of a united Quebec, from transforming society with our narratives and our stories. Everyone just always talked about how it was doomed and I didn't need to learn French and I should just leave all throughout my youth. The children should have been taught that this is your home and you need to fight for it and things should and can be transformed for the better. We have to forget the English Quebec of the past that isn't an acceptable model for the future and actually fight for one where French and English students can go to the same physical schools again and learn from each other and integrate into each other's lives. One in which people wouldn't vote for political parties that had intolerant attitudes towards their neighbours, labeling them others, just as people don't vote for anti-immigrant and anti-gay politicians anymore. We need a community that is pessimistic about the future to care enough about its home to get off the proverbial couch and try to create a better one through some actual activism. But old cynicism is a barrier to that.
It's not the speaking up that's a problem, I applaud that. The PQ needs to be opposed vigourously. It's the (perhaps justified) hate behind it that is spiritually damaging. If you look at other inter-ethnic conflicts, what attitudes were truly transformative in a positive way? The anger of the forgotten Indian revolutionaries, or the love of Ghandi? Quite the contrary, I think the cynicism of our community and the ill will we bear the greater society is precisely what has kept us from doing what needs to be done, from integrating to the point where we can aggressively spread alternate, inclusive visions of a united Quebec, from transforming society with our narratives and our stories. Everyone just always talked about how it was doomed and I didn't need to learn French and I should just leave all throughout my youth. The children should have been taught that this is your home and you need to fight for it and things should and can be transformed for the better. We have to forget the English Quebec of the past that isn't an acceptable model for the future and actually fight for one where French and English students can go to the same physical schools again and learn from each other and integrate into each other's lives. One in which people wouldn't vote for political parties that had intolerant attitudes towards their neighbours, labeling them others, just as people don't vote for anti-immigrant and anti-gay politicians anymore. We need a community that is pessimistic about the future to care enough about its home to get off the proverbial couch and try to create a better one through some actual activism. But old cynicism is a barrier to that.
The dominant community discourse is so overwhelmingly negative that its decline almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I personally know tons of anglos who live in Quebec who think that the language isssue is no big deal. Most are indifferent to the issue and a few even support the policies and think that anglos who refuse to speak any French are square heads. These days, anglos such as these make up a larger share of the current community than most people realize.
And I fully understand how they feel. Their situation is not really that much different than that of many of my family members who are francophones who live in the ROC. Aside from the obligation on store signs, anglos in Quebec have access to way more stuff in English than they do in French. Are they unhappy? Nope. Do they lobby for their rights? Yes they do. But not in the same way that the harder line anglos in Quebec do.
Do they fall prey to affronts because they are francophones? Yes, on occasion they do. But they shrug it off as opposed to making a big deal out of it. Because these affronts are the "small stuff" of life that you shouldn't sweat.
For example, the exact same thing as this (with French) has happened to at least two of my elderly relatives in the ROC:
It's not the speaking up that's a problem, I applaud that. The PQ needs to be opposed vigourously. It's the (perhaps justified) hate behind it that is spiritually damaging. If you look at other inter-ethnic conflicts, what attitudes were truly transformative in a positive way? The anger of the forgotten Indian revolutionaries, or the love of Ghandi? Quite the contrary, I think the cynicism of our community and the ill will we bear the greater society is precisely what has kept us from doing what needs to be done, from integrating to the point where we can aggressively spread alternate, inclusive visions of a united Quebec, from transforming society with our narratives and our stories. Everyone just always talked about how it was doomed and I didn't need to learn French and I should just leave all throughout my youth. The children should have been taught that this is your home and you need to fight for it and things should and can be transformed for the better. We have to forget the English Quebec of the past that isn't an acceptable model for the future and actually fight for one where French and English students can go to the same physical schools again and learn from each other and integrate into each other's lives. One in which people wouldn't vote for political parties that had intolerant attitudes towards their neighbours, labeling them others, just as people don't vote for anti-immigrant and anti-gay politicians anymore. We need a community that is pessimistic about the future to care enough about its home to get off the proverbial couch and try to create a better one through some actual activism. But old cynicism is a barrier to that.
BB I think you may have missed the point. i have no problems with the French people its the separatist government and its supporters i have the problem with,
I've been here 40 years,i've walked the walk so to speak, become functionally bilingual, raised a family all bilingual lived more of my life in French than in English we've done everything possible to fit in with Quebec society yet its not good enough,we are still considered Maudit Anglais, les Autres,
The separatist government calls for more language legislation, more language police directed solely at the English and now the government is about to crack down on religious symbolism.
BB i'm not sure what your idea of Quebec is But from some one who lives here the separatist will not rest easy till every last Anglo has been chased out of the province if you think otherwise you're in for some future disappointment in your future residency here..
AJ you go on and on about the plight of the Francophone in the ROC, theres one big difference for them,they dont have to deal with the English equivalent of Bill101, or all the other bills and charters rules and regulations that the English in Quebec are legally bound to abide by..
The dominant community discourse is so overwhelmingly negative that its decline almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I personally know tons of anglos who live in Quebec who think that the language isssue is no big deal. Most are indifferent to the issue and a few even support the policies and think that anglos who refuse to speak any French are square heads. These days, anglos such as these make up a larger share of the current community than most people realize.
And I fully understand how they feel. Their situation is not really that much different than that of many of my family members who are francophones who live in the ROC. Aside from the obligation on store signs, anglos in Quebec have access to way more stuff in English than they do in French. Are they unhappy? Nope. Do they lobby for their rights? Yes they do. But not in the same way that the harder line anglos in Quebec do.
Do they fall prey to affronts because they are francophones? Yes, on occasion they do. But they shrug it off as opposed to making a big deal out of it. Because these affronts are the "small stuff" of life that you shouldn't sweat.
For example, the exact same thing as this (with French) has happened to at least two of my elderly relatives in the ROC:
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For my merely speaking up against Quebecs repressive language laws,,
