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Well, it's not so easy to just up and move away, is it? If I decided to move tomorrow (and I won't, because I'm quite content here for now), I would have to leave my children behind, unless their father decided he didn't care to see them. People would have to leave behind children, parents, spouses, that sort of thing. Quebec is a very socialist province in that there are multiple government incentives for families to retain roots here (for example, we pay $120/month for childcare per child, regardless of income). Families do not wish to leave this and go to Ontario (or whatever) and pay $1200-1600 a month for childcare.
I *personally* don't mind the language issue myself. Plenty of anglos left because they got tired of losing their privileged position (yes, straight from the horse's mouth, I have heard this from those who were doing very well corporately in the 70s). Gone are the days where you could be a unilingual anglo and settle in here. People don't like that, and they'll complain, even from far away when they've moved. MOST anglos here don't really care that much. Things like the charter, yes, they feel this is going too far into xenophobia (BTW, I was in a normal government hospital a few weeks ago with my son and there was a 3 foot cross in his room, but no hijab for the nurse? Give me a break...)
Do Bills 22, 178 and 101 really not bother you? They essentially reduce English to the status of a foreign language in Quebec. I'm all for bilingualism, but bilingualism to me is more than speaking English at home and French everywhere else.
Sorry I seem to have started something. But this is kind of what I was talking about.... however the real language "war" is even worse elsewhere: I've noticed when an article about the Quebec language issues is posted on a Canadian magazine, newspaper, or news web site, there are dozens and dozens of very hostile anti-French comments posted underneath. Whether or not these are racist, is debatable but they are certainly hateful. I also read French well and do not see anywhere near the same level of hate from the French side, on the French web sites.
All I am saying is: if some Anglos really hate the French language so much, why stay in Quebec? I'm not saying that Anglos have no historical right to stay in Quebec - I'm saying for own physical and mental well-being, if you feel as passionately anti-French as some of these posters do, why stay and upset yourself so much? Do you honestly think French Quebecers will want to go back to bilingualism in Quebec, when the rest of Canada won't go for it? Do Quebec Anglos feel they need to "hold the fort" (occupy Quebec) because you won the war 200 years ago? It just seems to silly to put up with something you hate so much when there are other places to live in Canada. Wouldn't it be fair to the French Quebecers, one of the 2 "founding people" in Canada, to let them have Quebec the way they want, while Anglos have the rest of Canada? Just sayin'!
I don't know what all this comparison is with Spanish in Florida? The U.S, has a completely different history, with no bilingual / bicultural tradition. Even though Miami for example is very Spanish-speaking, English is still the only official language there. But yes, to many Americans, the Spanish-speakers have "taken over" Miami and I honestly wouldn't live there unless I learned Spanish. But that is the reality today - people move and things change - it doesn't pay for Americans or Canadians to look too far back in history and we will see that Europeans were not the original people. So I was just saying - TODAY the situation in Quebec is a French majority, who has nowhere else to go - they are never going to accept the bilingualism of the past - so why keep fighting over this?
The spanish analogy wasnt meant to imply the two situations as exactly similar but to convey the idea if you were happily living some place then one of the resident cultural demographics started instituting all manner of rules,regulation and endless laws that you were bound to abide by you might not be to happy about the turn of events.
As for just leaving? many have and the exodus continues but its not because somehow Anglos hate the French its more to do with job opportunities, educational issues, and just being tired of the feeling of not being wanted in a certain area of your own country and all the rules and regulations set in place to maximize that attitude.
Not to worry lefty another generation and the last of the Anglos will be gone from Quebec and Quebec will probably be a country of its own..
I guess I started this thread because, mostly on the other Canadian newspaper and news sites I mentioned, I read comments with such anti-French venom and I couldn't imagine why people would stay somewhere if they were that unhappy. I'm not saying you or anyone here feels that way but there does seem to be an element in Canada that really seems to hate everything French... and maybe these are people who don't even live in Quebec, who are reacting to the news media that likes to stir things up. And obviously, we know all about that, in the U.S. too !!!
I guess I started this thread because, mostly on the other Canadian newspaper and news sites I mentioned, I read comments with such anti-French venom and I couldn't imagine why people would stay somewhere if they were that unhappy. I'm not saying you or anyone here feels that way but there does seem to be an element in Canada that really seems to hate everything French... and maybe these are people who don't even live in Quebec, who are reacting to the news media that likes to stir things up. And obviously, we know all about that, in the U.S. too !!!
I find the worst comments do come from outside the province from random bigots, most often for typically Canadian regionalist nonsense like being a Westerner who resents Easterners on principle (common), or being a Conservative who doesn't like Quebec's voting record, or who is offended about equalization payments, or just doesn't like having to have French on his cereal box. Actual Quebec Anglos are very passionate, but our views are typically much more nuanced, informed, and goal oriented. There's definitely a paranoid garrison mentality, but this can be justified by there legitimately being a campaign to wipe out our culture and get us to all move to other provinces as has been suggested. Alot of people don't want to give into that. They don't consider other places to be home and for the most part bilingualism is very high in the community, especially amongst younger generations. The fight is mostly an ideological one, a desire to be recognized as a valuable and legitimate Quebec community. The feeling of being disrespected hurts because they care about Quebec, and the resentment that causes sticks in the communal craw and makes people angrily lash out because of hurt sometimes.
For myself, I did leave the province, but it was a huge sacrifice. It meant becoming separated from a huge, close extended family since my mother had six siblings. It meant leaving behind a tight knit social network of friends, many of whom had stuck with my through elementary school, high school, CEGEP and university. It meant moving away from the culture I had grown up in to one that is nice but frankly isn't the same one. Anglo Quebeckers, as much as we are defined in opposition to french Quebeckers, have alot in common with them and English Canada is a big culture change. I still often feel half a foreigner and I miss where I came from. I understand wanting to preserve that culture, to preserve something that alot of us feel enriches our communities culturally and makes them stronger. Really, the extra language legislation is opposed not as much for practical means, but symbolic ones, because it feels like they're flipping the bird at us and are telling us once again that we are not welcome and need to die as a community. Some people move, but alot just resent the message, adapt, and do not want to give in.
I guess there is a long and complicated history - excuse me for opening up wounds. I was mostly just reacting to some really negative anti-French comments I'd read. I was like, Wow - I never knew Canadians got so worked up like that! And frankly, some comments were sort of racist in their tone, implying some English Canadians didn't like French people, not just the language. While here in the U.S. we're often hearing from English Canadians that it's the French who hate them (and supposedly, us Americans - though this has not been my experience). Hard to know what to believe! So obviously, it goes both ways and I'm guessing the whole level of animosity is probably waaaaay over-exaggerated by people who don't actually live in Quebec! I guess it may be like Whites and Blacks in America - you hear about the racial incidents but you don't hear about the 90+% of us that get along just fine!
But here's a question. I read that some of the justification for the strong pro-french legislation and limits on bilingualism were because, in the past, many Anglos and immigrants wouldn't bother learning French... because everything was translated for them. So is there possibly a "silver lining" to this, especially in the area of education, in that most Anglos and immigrants now speak and understand French? And would going back to the old way, with everything bilingual and free choice in education un-do all this? Surely, some Anglos and immigrants must feel that it's nice to be bilingual, even if you had to get there somewhat via coercion!
Do Bills 22, 178 and 101 really not bother you? They essentially reduce English to the status of a foreign language in Quebec. I'm all for bilingualism, but bilingualism to me is more than speaking English at home and French everywhere else.
No, it doesn't bother me.
I generally live amongst francophones and so is my extended family. Without starting a massive debate here, I do think they have genuine valid reasons for feeling the way they do and the reason they do some laws, and that without some language laws, French is very much at risk here in future generations.
There are very few francophones here who hate the English, but there are plenty of friendly ones who feel their language is in threat of being swallowed up by 400 million English speakers.
French can last 200+ years being part of the British Empire, but all of the sudden now it's under threat and needs Bill 101?
You can't seriously pretend that 200 years ago, the youth speaking French on a farm out in St-Joseph-du-Lac were on an equal playing field with the youth of today in Montreal who are bombarded by Hollywood productions, 600 English-language channels, the Internet, I have not seen one job ad in Montreal that did not require at least intermediate English, etc... need I go on?
I'm not interested in diving into a long debate but I would suggest that YOUR position is completely clouded by your own bias and places little value on how francophones genuinely feel. Have you ever sat down and read real arguments about this issue from the francophone perspective? I assume you are bilingual since you grew up in Montreal, so I don't see why you can't even slightly consider how they feel at threat of losing their culture.
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