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Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. So...what would an English Montreal be like? The
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So yeah...that's why I'm trying to imagine what an English Montreal would be like. Not as cool (personally speaking), but probably more prosperous.
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An English Montreal (where for example the local francophone culture would no longer occupy a significant portion of the "mainstream") would be greatly diminished from the "uniqueness" perspective.
This is not to say that the anglo minority does not contribute anything culturally to the city. I would be an idiot if I suggested that. But the culture of English Montreal does "dovetail" significantly with the Anglo North American mainstream. Its contribution, while rich, is mostly in the fields of literature and music. These are the two areas where you can really talk about a distinct English Montreal "character". For example, there is very little on the TV and cinematic side that uniquely ''Montreal" in English. In French you have tons of stuff. In fact, in French you have oodles of uniquely Montreal/Quebec stuff in basically every form of cultural expression there is, from burlesque comedy to musical theatre to porn.
Because Switzerland, France and Belgium don't almost exclusively trade with English speaking countries, and are not surrounded by English speaking countries.
If Canada doesn't depend so much on an English speaking neighbour, but rather trade more evenly with the US, China, Korea, Russia, France, Germany, Brazil etc, with only 20% share from the US/rest of Canada, then I guess language wouldn't matter that much.
An English Montreal (where for example the local francophone culture would no longer occupy a significant portion of the "mainstream") would be greatly diminished from the "uniqueness" perspective.
This is not to say that the anglo minority does not contribute anything culturally to the city. I would be an idiot if I suggested that. But the culture of English Montreal does "dovetail" significantly with the Anglo North American mainstream. Its contribution, while rich, is mostly in the fields of literature and music. These are the two areas where you can really talk about a distinct English Montreal "character". For example, there is very little on the TV and cinematic side that uniquely ''Montreal" in English. In French you have tons of stuff. In fact, in French you have oodles of uniquely Montreal/Quebec stuff in basically every form of cultural expression there is, from burlesque comedy to musical theatre to porn.
agree.
If Montreal becomes English speaking, then its cultural offering will be vastly diminished, because, isn't it clear that all English speaking Canadians are so comfortable consuming everything from the US? Prime Time television is dominated by American shows, or pathetic copy cats such as "Amazing Race, Canada" or "Top Chef Canada".
The rest of Canada is sadly enough, culturally speaking. It will be a disgrace if Quebec/Montreal becomes predominantly English speaking. Culturally, it will lose all its identity. It will be like Toronto with nothing to boast about except something as dubious as like "diversity" as if it is unique to Toronto.
Because Switzerland, France and Belgium don't almost exclusively trade with English speaking countries, and are not surrounded by English speaking countries.
If Canada doesn't depend so much on an English speaking neighbour, but rather trade more evenly with the US, China, Korea, Russia, France, Germany, Brazil etc, with only 20% share from the US/rest of Canada, then I guess language wouldn't matter that much.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
Well, to follow up on what lexdiamonds said, consider that Quebec City is about 98% francophone and has an extremely low unemployment rate* and is close to being a booming city. *Similar to that of Calgary and Edmonton.
Montreal has had a harder time adjusting given that its economy was more firmly ensconced in Anglo North America and was for a long time a big North American city like the others. And so much of its economy was oriented in this way. When the ducks in Montreal stopped lining up in the classic North American way it hurt the city's economy as some people wrote it off as a NA big city, though I would argue that it has now largely recovered from this and although it could be better, it is doing reasonably well given the circumstances. Its unemployment is about the same as Toronto's or sometimes slightly lower or sometimes slightly higher.
But it's not just about the unemployment rate. It's about productivity as well. Montreal's GDP/capital is much lower than similarly-sized cities in North America. And it's growing (economically as well as population) much more slowly than other Canadian cities. I haven't seen any numbers on Quebec City, but I assume it's a similar story. Plus, unemployment tends to be lower in cities with a large government presence anyway.
agree.
If Montreal becomes English speaking, then its cultural offering will be vastly diminished, because, isn't it clear that all English speaking Canadians are so comfortable consuming everything from the US? Prime Time television is dominated by American shows, or pathetic copy cats such as "Amazing Race, Canada" or "Top Chef Canada".
.
And Anglo-Montrealers are not really that different from other Canadians on this front, to be quite honest.
agree.
If Montreal becomes English speaking, then its cultural offering will be vastly diminished, because, isn't it clear that all English speaking Canadians are so comfortable consuming everything from the US? Prime Time television is dominated by American shows, or pathetic copy cats such as "Amazing Race, Canada" or "Top Chef Canada".
The rest of Canada is sadly enough, culturally speaking. It will be a disgrace if Quebec/Montreal becomes predominantly English speaking. Culturally, it will lose all its identity. It will be like Toronto with nothing to boast about except something as dubious as like "diversity" as if it is unique to Toronto.
Yeah I tend to agree with this, and with what Acajack said as well. Which is what makes it such a thorny/interesting topic.
And Anglo-Montrealers are not really that different from other Canadians on this front, to be quite honest.
Definitely.
One thing I hate about Canada as an immigrant is that everything/everyone is obsessed with what happens in the US. We care about a snow storm in Boston more than people losing lives in the rest of the world. We copy every single successful TV shows from the US - remember some of them are copied from other countries, but we don't give a damn, we only copy it once the US copies it.
Remember the manhunt for the Boston marathon bombing terrorists? Canadian media covered it 24/7, suspending everything else, as if it is happening in Ottawa - I am not saying it is not worth reporting, but honestly speaking it is not worth so much attention we paid. There are far more serious crimes and atrocities that happen in the rest of the world which we simply don't give a damn. Yet the fact some snow fall brought Atlanta or Washington DC to a halt makes headline news. No country in the world is so obsessed with its neighbour like this, without any self-respect. I would tolerate it more if the US gives us remotely similar attention, but hell no. half of Americans don't know where Canada's capital is and Apple just switched Ottawa and Toronto on its map. This is how much Americans care about Canada.
Quebec is the only place in Canada where people actually care about local culture more than that from a foreign country, and has been continuously producing new contents. Quebecois consume mainstream American culture too, of course, like everyone does on the planet, but at least they are not completely losing themselves.
It makes me sad to see Quebec in this situation having to choose economic prosperity and cultural identity. Some of its language rules are crazy, but I tend to understand the motives, a province of 8 million people submerged among 350M people who speak a different language, most of whom think the presence of French itself is a pain in the ass. I wish Quebec were locates somewhere else, maybe switching places with the UK so that it doesn't have the face the constant pressure of fighting invasion of English like this. Wonder how brazil managed this, but Brazil is the biggest country in South America.
Quebec is the only place in Canada where people actually care about local culture more than that from a foreign country, and has been continuously producing new contents. Quebecois consume mainstream American culture too, of course, like everyone does on the planet, but at least they are not completely losing themselves.
It makes me sad to see Quebec in this situation having to choose economic prosperity and cultural identity. Some of its language rules are crazy, but I tend to understand the motives, a province of 8 million people submerged among 350M people who speak a different language, most of whom think the presence of French itself is a pain in the ass. I wish Quebec were locates somewhere else, maybe switching places with the UK so that it doesn't have the face the constant pressure of fighting invasion of English like this. .
I see your points, but overall Quebec still does reasonably well for itself, all things considered. I don't think it should be pitied (not saying this is what you are doing BTW).
Having lived in the other, anglo part of North America for over half my life, and now living in Quebec, from a "cultural balance" perspective living here feels like living in the Netherlands, Denmark or Sweden. You have a noticeable presence of the English language (and the global culture that goes along with it) that is inescapable, but it's usually a secondary thing. And then you have the primary local language and culture which are well established, entrenched and quite pervasive.
For example, this movie is as we speak rivalling all of the American blockbusters for top spot at the Quebec box office. And this is an art-house/repertory film, not a blockbuster low-brow comedy about, say, "the boys" playing hockey. (Quebec does those as well of course.)
Also Canada's nominee for the Oscar for best foreign film, BTW.
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