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. I guess it is just two different cultures and way of thought.
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Speaking of culture...
Neither my wife nor I are originally from Quebec and we didn't go to school here.
One thing we've noticed (before moving here and having lived here for a while now) is that teens in Quebec tend to be more mature and streetwise on average than teens in, say, Ontario.
It's quite striking in post-secondary institutions like the University of Ottawa which get a mix of similarly-aged students from both Ontario and Quebec.
Compared to the Quebec kids, the Ontario kids often have more a bustin' loose mindset as if they've never before seen alcohol, drugs or members of the opposite sex in close proximity.
Our theory is that Quebec's system thrusts its kids into various stages of freedom and growing up somewhat earlier.
As I mentioned, you're in high school with some degree of freedom at age 12 in Quebec. In Ontario it's generally 14.
In Quebec you generally graduate from high school at 16-17, and after that you go to CEGEP which is a type of junior college. It's way more like post-secondary than it is high school, with students having full responsibility for their attendance and marks. No parent-teacher meetings there - they're treated like adults and the parents' role is nil. Your schedule is flexible with day and evening classes. Some kids from far-flung regions are sometimes in dorms or residences near the CEGEP. Outings are generally adult-style and the pub crawls are legendary. Once you're there you're pretty independent and for most this is where the transition to adulthood happens.
So by the time you exit CEGEP and enter university (in Ottawa or elsewhere - more likely in Quebec, where there is no such "clash" of course), you've got all of that out of your system. Whereas the Ontario kids in your university class who are 18-19 years old are just out of high school. (You go straight from high school to university in all of Canada outside Quebec.)
After reading about it, Quebec's system sounds similar to systems employed in Europe and parts of Asia with a few differences. The old British system which my own parents actually went through is similar in that secondary school begins at Form 1 (equivalent to US Grade 7 and actually now renamed "Year 7" in the UK) and depending on individual aptitude, can last between 4-7 years. High achieving students who passed their O(rdinary) Level exams after Form 5 (Year 11) obtain a diploma and get to go on to Lower Sixth and Upper Sixth (Year 12-13) for university preparation and if they pass all of their A(dvanced) Level exams, can qualify to study for university. The Sixth Form levels to me are similar to the French (and apparently Quebecois) CEGEP levels and it is not shocking to find secondary school graduates from these countries enter university one year later than their American counterparts (say at age 19).
[Some of the terminology I used in the paragraph is now obsolete after numerous reforms in the UK and former UK colonies like Hong Kong but the system pretty much stays the same.]
Quebec didn't have a Ministry of Education until 1964 believe it or not. Prior to that education was handled by religious groups: basically the Catholic and Protestant churches.
So basically at that point the province set up a public education system from scratch, based at least partly on a pick-and-choose exercise of what was being done elsewhere. (I am not naive enough to think they only picked the best of what was out there.)
Anyway, that's the reason the education system is quite different from what you see elsewhere in Canada and the U.S., where the systems pretty much grew up at the same time, and you find a high degree of commonality to this day.
Ok, I've been debating this event. (people won't like it, so if you get triggered easily, skip)
- It's very sad that a 14-year-old lost her life, way too young and it's heartbreaking. With that said, she and whoever went with her to get the drinks, knew it was alcohol. The label is clear enough to see that it says 11.9%.
- There are warnings on the bottle
- She/the kids stole the drinks, so they knew what they were getting into.
- Her friends ditched her or made no effort to find her.
So at 14, even though they're not fully mature, they can still make calculated decisions. They're not little kids, and they know what alcohol or drugs (just throwing this in there) can do at their age. Therefore, it's not the drink or manufacturers fault for this, it's the girl fault/her friends.
Second, whoever was in charge at the dep. should've been more aware that young high school kids always steal or try to obtain alcohol. I remember seeing this in Miami, there were stores in front of high schools selling booze. They would ask the kids to remove their bags and would monitor them, and this led to a decrease of hospitalisation, injuries and deaths from alcohol. So they should implement stuff like that, especially in Laval.
Finally, I respect how the company stopped producing it. I don't completely agree with the ban on these drinks, I personally enjoy them (limit to 1 only) but I understand why they're doing it.
Ok, I've been debating this event. (people won't like it, so if you get triggered easily, skip)
- It's very sad that a 14-year-old lost her life, way too young and it's heartbreaking. With that said, she and whoever went with her to get the drinks, knew it was alcohol. The label is clear enough to see that it says 11.9%.
- There are warnings on the bottle
- She/the kids stole the drinks, so they knew what they were getting into.
- Her friends ditched her or made no effort to find her.
So at 14, even though they're not fully mature, they can still make calculated decisions. They're not little kids, and they know what alcohol or drugs (just throwing this in there) can do at their age. Therefore, it's not the drink or manufacturers fault for this, it's the girl fault/her friends.
Second, whoever was in charge at the dep. should've been more aware that young high school kids always steal or try to obtain alcohol. I remember seeing this in Miami, there were stores in front of high schools selling booze. They would ask the kids to remove their bags and would monitor them, and this led to a decrease of hospitalisation, injuries and deaths from alcohol. So they should implement stuff like that, especially in Laval.
Finally, I respect how the company stopped producing it. I don't completely agree with the ban on these drinks, I personally enjoy them (limit to 1 only) but I understand why they're doing it.
Yes, I was half considering putting this thread in the Parenting Forum because it has a lot to do with how you raise a child and teach him/her right from wrong.
14 years of age is just right in that age range that young people go on a dare and do stupid things that could get them into trouble. I got caught trying to evade train fare at age 14, around the same time, a classmate of mine crashed his body onto a fence thinking he was invincible and ended up breaking both arms. It's just that period of rebellion against everyone and everything most kids go through.
But you are right, there ought to have been more safeguards in place. The clerk at the depanneur might have felt threatened by groups of teens coming into the store (I doubt this was an isolated shoplifting incident) but he/she should have alerted the school which should have taken action to stop such incidents from taking place. The school authorities should also have kept closer watch over the pupils staying within the school radius during lunch hour and most of all, they should have sounded full alarm once they discovered that Athena attended morning classes but did not come back in the afternoon. Did anyone in the student body speak up? Did her friends who were with her during lunch speak up? Were they ever questioned by the school authorities? A lot has not been said in the media, there are many missing pieces, and to a degree you are right that all the blame seems to have been heaped upon the beverage company.
This FCKD UP drink BTW is not just alcohol, it's alcohol laced with caffeine. I've actually heard of Four Loko, its American competitor, and was aware of a US Food and Drug Administration warning for it a few years ago. By mixing alcohol with caffeine, the drinker is not supposed to feel the drowsy affects of alcohol and fall asleep but instead stay awake in a zombie-like stupor.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant
Yes, I was half considering putting this thread in the Parenting Forum because it has a lot to do with how you raise a child and teach him/her right from wrong.
14 years of age is just right in that age range that young people go on a dare and do stupid things that could get them into trouble. I got caught trying to evade train fare at age 14, around the same time, a classmate of mine crashed his body onto a fence thinking he was invincible and ended up breaking both arms. It's just that period of rebellion against everyone and everything most kids go through.
But you are right, there ought to have been more safeguards in place. The clerk at the depanneur might have felt threatened by groups of teens coming into the store (I doubt this was an isolated shoplifting incident) but he/she should have alerted the school which should have taken action to stop such incidents from taking place. The school authorities should also have kept closer watch over the pupils staying within the school radius during lunch hour and most of all, they should have sounded full alarm once they discovered that Athena attended morning classes but did not come back in the afternoon. Did anyone in the student body speak up? Did her friends who were with her during lunch speak up? Were they ever questioned by the school authorities? A lot has not been said in the media, there are many missing pieces, and to a degree you are right that all the blame seems to have been heaped upon the beverage company.
. The clerk at the depanneur might have felt threatened by groups of teens coming into the store (I doubt this was an isolated shoplifting incident) but he/she should have alerted the school which should have taken action to stop such incidents from taking place. .
I would guess that any business that is located right across the street from a high school has issues with managing groups of teens that are both clients and non-clients.
The biggest mall in my city is right across the street from a high school as well, and there are can be issues sometimes as well - especially in the food court area. Nothing really serious though.
Sometimes though the people who have to deal with these situations feel like they're trying to scoop up the ocean with a teaspoon.
Did anyone in the student body speak up? Did her friends who were with her during lunch speak up? Were they ever questioned by the school authorities?.
When lunch hour ended they started getting ready to go back to class. They argued with her to come back into the school but she would have none of that. So they went inside to class and she was left to her own devices.
When lunch hour ended they started getting ready to go back to class. They argued with her to come back into the school but she would have none of that. So they went inside to class and she was left to her own devices.
Ughhh, more like 12 glasses of wine and 15 espresso shots. Likely on an empty stomach too. That was sure to get her drunk and stoned all at once. She was not in fit condition to return to class. Her friends should have dragged her to the school nurse or called for help but probably didn't because they didn't want to get into trouble themselves. That now makes sense. So tragic!
Ughhh, more like 12 glasses of wine and 15 espresso shots. Likely on an empty stomach too. That was sure to get her drunk and stoned all at once. She was not in fit condition to return to class. Her friends should have dragged her to the school nurse or called for help but probably didn't because they didn't want to get into trouble themselves. That now makes sense. So tragic!
Yes. I would surmise that her friends were probably tipsy themselves and didn't want to draw too much attention to themselves. Which that (going to the nurse with her) would have obviously done. Showing up drunk at school is pretty serious trouble. Typical teenage behaviour of course - which sometimes leads to tragedies unfortunately.
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