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Also political discourse in Montreal/Quebec is IMO more influenced by what goes on in Europe (especially France) and as a result can be much less PC than in the rest of Canada and the U.S.
You see this in the debate of religious accommodation for example. Some of the discussions in Quebec often end up scandalizing or provoking self-righteous reactions from "other Canadians".
Also political discourse in Montreal/Quebec is IMO more influenced by what goes on in Europe (especially France) and as a result can be much less PC than in the rest of Canada and the U.S.
You see this in the debate of religious accommodation for example. Some of the discussions in Quebec often end up scandalizing or provoking self-righteous reactions from "other Canadians".
Another thing that is different about Montreal/Quebec is that it has a bit of an old world view on what is "of here" and what is "foreign".
This runs contrary to the mindset gaining steam in most other large diverse cities on this continent which suggests that basically anything in terms of culture, music, food, traditions, etc. is "local" the minute one of its practitioners settles here.
Also, this does not mean it's a closed shop. New stuff can be and is admitted to the "house" all the time, but usually not right away and also after they take on a unique local flavour.
For example, smoked meat and bagels are two foods that are as classic Montreal as it gets, and were the work of the city's Ashkenazi Jewish community.
A lot of people don't view this mindset very positively - especially Canadians living outside of Quebec. But what can I say, it is what it is.
I doubt Montrealers and Quebecers care much. Nor that they will change.
Another thing that is different about Montreal/Quebec is that it has a bit of an old world view on what is "of here" and what is "foreign".
This runs contrary to the mindset gaining steam in most other large diverse cities on this continent which suggests that basically anything in terms of culture, music, food, traditions, etc. is "local" the minute one of its practitioners settles here.
Also, this does not mean it's a closed shop. New stuff can be and is admitted to the "house" all the time, but usually not right away and also after they take on a unique local flavour.
For example, smoked meat and bagels are two foods that are as classic Montreal as it gets, and were the work of the city's Ashkenazi Jewish community.
A lot of people don't view this mindset very positively - especially Canadians living outside of Quebec. But what can I say, it is what it is.
I doubt Montrealers and Quebecers care much. Nor that they will change.
You do know Francophone Quebec -- ein gros merci pour ces renseignements! I find that place, especially Montreal, endlessly fascinating (not sure that is a good thing).
What you describe about Montreal reminds me of New Orleans and its famous Creole cooking and foodstuffs. Historically, Catholic parishes in New Orleans were the way of integrating Catholic immigrants to the city -- early on the Sicilians, but later Central Americans, Vietnamese and others as well. These immigrants have left / are leaving an imprint on local food traditions once they were / are "Creolized" or adopted by locals as a local food... I'm thinking of New Orleans' famous Muffuletta sandwich, but there are other examples. The mode of integration of immigrants in New Orleans was different than other U.S. cities. The churches were predominantly Creole (Franco-Louisianan origin). Immigrants Creolized, rather than maintain strong national-origin identities like in other U.S. cities. New York, Boston had strong Irish-origin and Italian-origin churches, etc., that buttressed ethnicity. But this was less the case in New Orleans, where there were greater opportunities (and pressure?) to adopt the Creole ways.
Also, women in Quebec keep their maiden names when they marry. It's the law and a complex legal procedure if you really want to change it.
There is also a fairly different relationship to religion here. It's getting a bit late so I don't think I will explain right now, but let's just say that the separation of church and state, and secularism in general, are almost dogmatic here. To the point where it sometimes creates conflict with certain minority groups. All of which exists with a strong historic Catholic foundation that is very lapsed but nonetheless still has cultural implications - again similarly to the situation in other lapsed Latin Catholic nations.
The rest of Canada is also more secular than the U.S. but doesn't push the envelope as much as Quebec does.
You do know Francophone Quebec -- ein gros merci pour ces renseignements! I find that place, especially Montreal, endlessly fascinating (not sure that is a good thing).
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Yes, it's a lesser known new world reality. A different "America". The other variants of "America" (anglophone, hispanophone and lusophone) get all sorts of attention because they're bigger and have sovereign countries spearheading them, but even if it's not its own country this place is enough of its own society to give a taste of the French new world experiment. For lack of a better term.
Curiosity about that unique socio-cultural experiment is what initially drew me to Quebec. (I was from a francophone family but totally lapsed at the time.)
Also, women in Quebec keep their maiden names when they marry. It's the law and a complex legal procedure if you really want to change it.
Actually, there is a pragmatic explanation for this: it's due to the rather high divorce rate, and also due to a high percentage of relationships without marriage. So, this is not aspect to brag about, but a shameful situation especially in QC :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack
There is also a fairly different relationship to religion here. It's getting a bit late so I don't think I will explain right now, but let's just say that the separation of church and state, and secularism in general, are almost dogmatic here. To the point where it sometimes creates conflict with certain minority groups. All of which exists with a strong historic Catholic foundation that is very lapsed but nonetheless still has cultural implications - again similarly to the situation in other lapsed Latin Catholic nations.
I've been living in QC for about 10 years, and if I could find a good explanation for this situation (including the reference to important cult objects of Catholic or Christian rite churches in general in people's cursing), is that it seems that there were some big "disappointment" somewhere in the 60'-70' when by official Papal decree, the use of women contraceptives was considered non-catholic and hence, heretic. This had created a big "disruption" between church and state because well, people want to accept only what they like and discard / ignore what that is less liked.
Actually, there is a pragmatic explanation for this: it's due to the rather high divorce rate, and also due to a high percentage of relationships without marriage. So, this is not aspect to brag about, but a shameful situation especially in QC :-)
Keeping the maiden name probably has more to do with avoiding the constant changing of documents with each life event. My wife still keeps her maiden name even though we have lived in the US for 20 years. We have had to explain ourselves more than once, especially when dealing with our kids' schools. Changing her name for us would mean having to go back to Quebec and getting her birth certificate changed so that it would match our documents here. Too much hassle. Here in the Excited States, it is not unusual for women from Central or South America to also use their maiden name, probably for the same reason.
Actually, there is a pragmatic explanation for this: it's due to the rather high divorce rate, and also due to a high percentage of relationships without marriage. So, this is not aspect to brag about, but a shameful situation especially in QC :-)
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I am not bragging, just stating facts.
And your explanation is way off-base. The law on maiden names goes back far before the huge rise in children born out of wedlock and common law relationships becoming the norm.
Their view was that the routine name change for married women as it existed before made no sense as it gave the impression that women became their husband's property when they got married.
I don't have strong feelings either way but I can certainly see the logic in that.
Keeping the maiden name probably has more to do with avoiding the constant changing of documents with each life event.
This is another good reason.
My wife is from Ontario and so has lots of friends there, and from marriage to divorce to marriage again to divorce again, some of them have changed surnames three or four times during their adult lives.
As someone who has lived in Quebec for a couple of decades now, it all seems so weird to me.
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