Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've noticed many of my fellow citizens are hostile to facts to such extent they cannot help themselves but shoot the messenger for uttering what they consider to be 'blasphemy' aloud. They're too vested in a story they told themselves and can't bear confrontation with facts. IMO This would be the greatest threat to our democratic republic- not the elusive phantom terrorist on the globe or the communist menace dictating to school children cowering under their desks for fear of crazy Ivan. America is sickened because we've deliberately been divided by special interest groups willing to rob from paul to quid pro quo peter with the spoils just to get their way. Too many have lost sight of what IS the greater good of all and so it's been neglected for decades. How dare a 'selfish' ex- NY'r 'carpetbagger' say so aloud??
The context of Tea party-- of course everyone in America supports their right to free speech. Whose speech is being exercised is dubious when all are lockstep with the FOX party line (a foreigner opportunistically wearing citizenship, yet revising the definition of our constitution through mass media). It's the content of what you're saying most find irrational. It's the way you've gone about it many are sorely disappointed. Tea has declared itself republican so let all disabuse themselves of the notion that this isn't partisan. Anyone self identifying as a former indie or former dem never was either, but living down to a GOP created stereotype of stray republican sheep needing recapture. That is Beck's job; to petition what are considered to be 'stragglers'- libertarians, indies, anarchists, and all others displaced by neocons without discrediting neocons too hard because they're still wearing the Republican hat. I think that's a disrespectful contemptuous attitude towards constituency who 'fail to agree' with policy, but it is their attitude. Judge them by their feet and their words.
I haven't doubt in my mind that GOP & RW constituency have been in massive crisis for decades, not because of the litany of wars they've declared (war on liberals, war on drugs, war on single parents, war on whatever), but because they've done it to themselves from within through blind loyalty. Treachery has breached the party. A core principle of the Republican party is accountability, and that was the first thing sacrificed when neoconservatism usurped the party sold on the premise of being economic hero's. Those doggedly denying the cumulative evidence that their economic plan has manifested itself as a plague upon the globe are too far gone from reason. It's never been that majority has wholesale disagreed with the all philosophical points they bring, more specifically, it's the administration of that philosophy creating more problems than solving. Now we're stuck with what we have collectively, which includes a GOP & constituency guilty as sin that refuses to acknowledge their responsibility for authoring, packaging, and selling mass distribution of a pig in a poke to their brothers and to humanity at large. Right; your country isn't nearly as important as your hurt pride- please see how far you've strayed from what was noble. Until the party finds some humility and owns mistakes, they're doomed to repeat them (spread as contagion in legislative & judicial body).
The other notion to disabuse yourselves of-- the Tea party has officially announced it has no plans to become a party of it's own. They've made no effort towards presenting alternative solutions to address the problems going on in America as we speak. Their objectives are to disrupt constructive efforts, to hobble the legislative body long enough to replace congress with their particular brand of like minded republicans, which will only exacerbate the problem. They only attack republicans who negotiate honorably (that IS the job in DC- no single ideology is sacred) but not nearly with the same fervor they prejudicially attack dems. Tea is yet another special interest group in service to itself at the expense of all. They're now a part of the problem instead of the solution.
Consider every wild accusation thrown out by right extreme for decades-- is it possible for any democrat or liberal to do anything right? This isn't only about Obama being black as some myopic leftists have satisfied themselves with oversimplified pigeon holing. This is a mixed bag of bigotry. Would Hillary be in oval office they might not be getting benefit of KKK joining their ranks, but they'd get the loyal support of misogynists. Either scenario, both are from the north, which allows a vocal minority of disgruntled southerners stuck on civil war vengeance to join their ranks. The people in Tea have taken dictation from those who wish to see America fail packaged in Trojan horse style. So ask yourselves which brand of blind hatred is better when it's a consolidated re-brand of blind hatred?
America being a one party state is a very unhealthy situation. The Tea party solution to having one arm injured is to hack at the other arm that's working. Think about it. Dems being in office aren't the problem. The republican party being unwell, or unfit for office, IS the problem. Tea party in word and deed is a misdirection of energy from the work they need to do in house. They act as tyrants with GOP leadership, similarly the way radical blacks imposed demands upon both parties at the expense of all once upon a time. Dems are fighting this battle one handed and disrupting their work is not only unproductive, but leaving America more vulnerable than it ever was before. We're vulnerable to exploitation from every known source of threat, especially the root source of disease that displaced true republicanism.
Our military strength is weakened by the financial debacle authored by right wing coupled with a foreign policy of fools errand authored by that same right wing. Anyone who challenges that policy on grounds of meritocracy are characterized 'elitist', while the perpetrators authoring that policy ARE the elitists they accuse others. How do I recognize this inherent foulness? They've repeatedly instructed their half of the country to declare war on the other half, hiding like cowards behind the cloak of the constitution. Hiding like cowards behind the American flag instead of before it to defend ALL it stands (not the cherry picked favorite parts).
I refuse to buy into the backwards notion that ALL things right wing are wrong, but until the right wing roots out the tumor that's taken over their party, no American has a sane choice remaining but to vote contrary to them. Best I can tell the majority of democratic party has been doing double duty evidenced by the abundance of moderate dems holding up traditional republican values on their backs. There are very few actual far leftists in any office of governance. The democrats don't walk lockstep, they have to role play for the missing republicans in the room so that conversation appears one sided, but honest assessment they're forced to wear two hats to approximate fair and balanced. Complain all you want it's not good enough but don't assume you know why it's so. Senator Byrd is a true conservative living full time under Democrat ticket. Before any would intellectually attack him as DINO, think again what's been going on in the big picture for decades.
The only way to remedy the danger of one party state is to fix the republican party, not burn the government down or generally speaking attack the fireman putting out the flames. Radical left made serious mistakes in the 60's that America held them accountable for directly. When NOW began to cross a line to abuse the rights of men, it was women who took the responsibility of equal citizenship seriously enough to stand up to their sisters and say foul. Parroting the mistakes of others under the radical right banner discredits Republican party even further at the expense of the nation they claim to love. Physician, heal thyself.
What an amazing assessment! Thank you for your post. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
[quote=harborlady;13928505] We can't afford to sit on our duff and presume most Americans can see through the charade. We're obliged to faithfully do our homework despite others who've obtained their academic promotions through emotional validation in media. Who promoted Joe the plumber to economic genius?[/quote]
[quote=harborlady;13928505] Folks telling people everything they want to hear are not the friends of truth, nor are they in service to the greater good. Special interest groups willing to win at any price delete the ground they're standing upon (constitution) and everyone loses.[/quote]
Amen. The Republicans lost big in 2008,in large part because they did everything they wanted (did the congress oppose ANY of W's ideas? Or vice versa?) and it failed, but instead of rethinking their approach, they have been trying scorched earth and blame shifting. Not very admirable.
What an amazing assessment! Thank you for your post. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
I'm not sure where you got your "facts", there HarborLady, but more than half the Tea Party members are Democrats and Independents. It isn't about the Fox "party line", it's about people not being happy with either party and government's not paying attention to the people. Many folks are fed up with special interest government. That applies to the Republicans and the Democrats. There is a movement to vote out incumbants regardless of their affiliation and start from scratch.
I'm not sure where you got your "facts", there HarborLady, but more than half the Tea Party members are Democrats and Independents. It isn't about the Fox "party line", it's about people not being happy with either party and government's not paying attention to the people. Many folks are fed up with special interest government. That applies to the Republicans and the Democrats. There is a movement to vote out incumbants regardless of their affiliation and start from scratch.
Where does the more than half documented amount (in terms of dems) come from??
I'm not sure where you got your "facts", there HarborLady, but more than half the Tea Party members are Democrats and Independents. It isn't about the Fox "party line", it's about people not being happy with either party and government's not paying attention to the people. Many folks are fed up with special interest government. That applies to the Republicans and the Democrats. There is a movement to vote out incumbants regardless of their affiliation and start from scratch.
You have a point that there are varying results depending on the poll involved. But one thing is clear, there are a lot more independents and democrats involved than many believe. People in general are getting upset that Government seems to have their own agenda that doesn't even consider the wishes of the people as a whole. Conservative polls are saying that more than half are independents and democrats. The Quinnipiac Poll (a liberal Catholic college in Connecticut) says 3/4 are Republican and 1/4 independents and democrats. In any case, there are enough people involved to have the elitist politicos scrambling around looking for answers. When even liberal reports indicate 15% voted for Obama it gets their attention.
Here is an article about the Quinnipiac Poll...
Why All the Media Buzz on the Quinnipiac Survey “Tea Party Movement” Results?
A recent Quinnipiac Poll has been released that supposedly confirms what everyone already knew about the Tea Party Movement (TPM). The liberal news media and blogging world is having a heyday with the poll results; this much is certain. Some of the liberal confirmations are the TPM is overwhelmingly Republican or GOP-leaning, is made up of a people who did not vote for Obama, and is predominately white.
Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute said, “The Tea Party movement is mostly made up of people who consider themselves Republicans. They are less educated but more interested in politics than the average Joe and Jane Six-Pack and are not in a traditional sense swing voters.” He went on to mention the concern of many in the TPM and confirm what many in the Democratic Party already know, “The Tea Party could be a Republican dream — or a GOP nightmare. Members could be a boon to the GOP if they are energized to support Republican candidates. But if the Tea Party were to run its own candidates for office, any votes its candidate received would to a very great extent be coming from the GOP column.”
To some, the results are actually quite surprising with the thought that the percentage of those in the TPM who are Republicans or independent voters leaning Republican would be much higher. Instead we learn 74% are Republicans or independent voters leaning Republican; 16% are Democrats or independent voters leaning Democratic; and 5% are solidly independent. 15% even voted to Barack Obama.
Why even take the time to mention such a poll as this? Its importance and supposed “revelations into the TPM” are being super-imposed by the far left into the minds of the American people as if “now you can believe what we have been trying to tell you all along.” In large part, the poll does tell us what many already knew in the same way that a poll of Acorn would confirm what we already knew about them, or a poll of the American Civil Liberties Union, or a poll of the NEA, or a poll of The League of Democrat Women Voters. The point made is this: “every group has a set of its own personal demographics which it is defined by – whether accurately or inaccurately.”
The TPM is not just a movement that has risen up against Obama the man; though he obviously plays a significant role due to his left wing principles and policies. Voices were beginning to rise in the TPM while George Bush was still in office and the stimulus/bail out money was first being discussed. There were people at those early Tea Parties booing Bush and holding up signs opposing the TARP Bill. People were just as “against” big government and “for” personal freedoms then, as they are now; but they were individual voices rather than a united front that the news media had not yet picked up on.
Why are the Quinnipiac results getting so much attention by the left leaning news media and blogging world? The answer is simple – it serves to confirm what they want confirmed. Why no exploitation of the polling results from CNN and the Opinion Research Corporation which found that 11% of Americans said they have given money, attended rallies or taken other “active steps” to support the Tea Party movement? Of that 11%, more identified themselves as independent (52%) than Republican (44%) or Democratic (4%). We could make the same argument from a number of other polls as well.
Let’s just be realistic about it. Most people (including the independents) who are active in the TPM are going to vote for the GOP candidate in their congressional district if there is no electable third-party candidate running with a Tea Party identity. Why? Because principle is more important than party! When the curtain comes down at the end of the day, the TPM is going to lean Republican because the Democrats are leaning too far left and do not represent the principles and values of those within the TPM. That is not an issue we should be in a state of denial over, nor should we recoil when it is called out by the liberal media pundits.
It is rather interesting that the liberal left, including Harry Reid in the Nevada Senate race, pay no attention and give no credence to the polls until the polls are confirming what they are saying. This is why the recent Quinnipiac poll became such a big deal.
I'm still wondering why this uninformed minority of people didn't rise up during Bush's term when he was cutting taxes to the wealthiest 5% of Americans, spending hundreds of billions on TWO wars, and letting our infrastructure collapse.... allowing our deficit to BALLOON
Obama lowers taxes on 95% of the population, let the tax cuts expire for the super rich, reduced war funding, and funneled money into our crumbling infrastructure... and has plans to reduce our deficit, and these people are up in arms... REALLY?!! really people?
You're right, you're so entitled you shouldn't have to pay taxes.
I'm still wondering why this uninformed minority of people didn't rise up during Bush's term when he was cutting taxes to the wealthiest 5% of Americans, spending hundreds of billions on TWO wars, and letting our infrastructure collapse.... allowing our deficit to BALLOON
Obama lowers taxes on 95% of the population, let the tax cuts expire for the super rich, reduced war funding, and funneled money into our crumbling infrastructure... and has plans to reduce our deficit, and these people are up in arms... REALLY?!! really people?
You're right, you're so entitled you shouldn't have to pay taxes.
It does make you wonder doesn't it? Where were all the people screaming "Socialism, Socialism" when Medicare Part D passed?
I've noticed many of my fellow citizens are hostile to facts to such extent they cannot help themselves but shoot the messenger for uttering what they consider to be 'blasphemy' aloud. They're too vested in a story they told themselves and can't bear confrontation with facts. IMO This would be the greatest threat to our democratic republic- not the elusive phantom terrorist on the globe or the communist menace dictating to school children cowering under their desks for fear of crazy Ivan. America is sickened because we've deliberately been divided by special interest groups willing to rob from paul to quid pro quo peter with the spoils just to get their way. Too many have lost sight of what IS the greater good of all and so it's been neglected for decades. How dare a 'selfish' ex- NY'r 'carpetbagger' say so aloud??
The context of Tea party-- of course everyone in America supports their right to free speech. Whose speech is being exercised is dubious when all are lockstep with the FOX party line (a foreigner opportunistically wearing citizenship, yet revising the definition of our constitution through mass media). It's the content of what you're saying most find irrational. It's the way you've gone about it many are sorely disappointed. Tea has declared itself republican so let all disabuse themselves of the notion that this isn't partisan. Anyone self identifying as a former indie or former dem never was either, but living down to a GOP created stereotype of stray republican sheep needing recapture. That is Beck's job; to petition what are considered to be 'stragglers'- libertarians, indies, anarchists, and all others displaced by neocons without discrediting neocons too hard because they're still wearing the Republican hat. I think that's a disrespectful contemptuous attitude towards constituency who 'fail to agree' with policy, but it is their attitude. Judge them by their feet and their words.
I haven't doubt in my mind that GOP & RW constituency have been in massive crisis for decades, not because of the litany of wars they've declared (war on liberals, war on drugs, war on single parents, war on whatever), but because they've done it to themselves from within through blind loyalty. Treachery has breached the party. A core principle of the Republican party is accountability, and that was the first thing sacrificed when neoconservatism usurped the party sold on the premise of being economic hero's. Those doggedly denying the cumulative evidence that their economic plan has manifested itself as a plague upon the globe are too far gone from reason. It's never been that majority has wholesale disagreed with the all philosophical points they bring, more specifically, it's the administration of that philosophy creating more problems than solving. Now we're stuck with what we have collectively, which includes a GOP & constituency guilty as sin that refuses to acknowledge their responsibility for authoring, packaging, and selling mass distribution of a pig in a poke to their brothers and to humanity at large. Right; your country isn't nearly as important as your hurt pride- please see how far you've strayed from what was noble. Until the party finds some humility and owns mistakes, they're doomed to repeat them (spread as contagion in legislative & judicial body).
The other notion to disabuse yourselves of-- the Tea party has officially announced it has no plans to become a party of it's own. They've made no effort towards presenting alternative solutions to address the problems going on in America as we speak. Their objectives are to disrupt constructive efforts, to hobble the legislative body long enough to replace congress with their particular brand of like minded republicans, which will only exacerbate the problem. They only attack republicans who negotiate honorably (that IS the job in DC- no single ideology is sacred) but not nearly with the same fervor they prejudicially attack dems. Tea is yet another special interest group in service to itself at the expense of all. They're now a part of the problem instead of the solution.
Consider every wild accusation thrown out by right extreme for decades-- is it possible for any democrat or liberal to do anything right? This isn't only about Obama being black as some myopic leftists have satisfied themselves with oversimplified pigeon holing. This is a mixed bag of bigotry. Would Hillary be in oval office they might not be getting benefit of KKK joining their ranks, but they'd get the loyal support of misogynists. Either scenario, both are from the north, which allows a vocal minority of disgruntled southerners stuck on civil war vengeance to join their ranks. The people in Tea have taken dictation from those who wish to see America fail packaged in Trojan horse style. So ask yourselves which brand of blind hatred is better when it's a consolidated re-brand of blind hatred?
America being a one party state is a very unhealthy situation. The Tea party solution to having one arm injured is to hack at the other arm that's working. Think about it. Dems being in office aren't the problem. The republican party being unwell, or unfit for office, IS the problem. Tea party in word and deed is a misdirection of energy from the work they need to do in house. They act as tyrants with GOP leadership, similarly the way radical blacks imposed demands upon both parties at the expense of all once upon a time. Dems are fighting this battle one handed and disrupting their work is not only unproductive, but leaving America more vulnerable than it ever was before. We're vulnerable to exploitation from every known source of threat, especially the root source of disease that displaced true republicanism.
Our military strength is weakened by the financial debacle authored by right wing coupled with a foreign policy of fools errand authored by that same right wing. Anyone who challenges that policy on grounds of meritocracy are characterized 'elitist', while the perpetrators authoring that policy ARE the elitists they accuse others. How do I recognize this inherent foulness? They've repeatedly instructed their half of the country to declare war on the other half, hiding like cowards behind the cloak of the constitution. Hiding like cowards behind the American flag instead of before it to defend ALL it stands (not the cherry picked favorite parts).
I refuse to buy into the backwards notion that ALL things right wing are wrong, but until the right wing roots out the tumor that's taken over their party, no American has a sane choice remaining but to vote contrary to them. Best I can tell the majority of democratic party has been doing double duty evidenced by the abundance of moderate dems holding up traditional republican values on their backs. There are very few actual far leftists in any office of governance. The democrats don't walk lockstep, they have to role play for the missing republicans in the room so that conversation appears one sided, but honest assessment they're forced to wear two hats to approximate fair and balanced. Complain all you want it's not good enough but don't assume you know why it's so. Senator Byrd is a true conservative living full time under Democrat ticket. Before any would intellectually attack him as DINO, think again what's been going on in the big picture for decades.
The only way to remedy the danger of one party state is to fix the republican party, not burn the government down or generally speaking attack the fireman putting out the flames. Radical left made serious mistakes in the 60's that America held them accountable for directly. When NOW began to cross a line to abuse the rights of men, it was women who took the responsibility of equal citizenship seriously enough to stand up to their sisters and say foul. Parroting the mistakes of others under the radical right banner discredits Republican party even further at the expense of the nation they claim to love. Physician, heal thyself.
It does make you wonder doesn't it? Where were all the people screaming "Socialism, Socialism" when Medicare Part D passed?
What makes these people so concerned now?
Oh they'll give a variety of excuses such as "Obama and the Democrats deficit spending was the tipping point" or "By God, I always felt this way but never realized so many others did as well" but in reality those don't even make sense. The Republican Party, with whom the majority of Tea Party protestors are registered, are the kings of deficit spending (see Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr and Jr, etc.) so that rules the first one out. The "i've always felt this way" line is debatable as well considering it has never been a huge issue before. I guess it always helps seeing other people rally for the same cause but that still doesn't answer where the original TEA Party organizers were in the past.
I have no problem with these people protesting, as each and every individual has the right to say whatever. What I have a problem with is their constant fear mongering/ election threats/ constant spewing of inaccurate information while simultaneously saying that the Mainstream media is somehow misunderstanding them. They can talk all they want about their chosen candidates sweeping the elections in 2010. Good for them that they plan on taking part in the elections. However, the reality is that the majority of them will go back to their mostly Republican dominated states in the South and Midwest and they along with the majority of other voters in their said states will vote for Republican candidates like they have done for the past several decades. No real shocker there.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
[/quote]
