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Old 07-24-2017, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 4,874,925 times
Reputation: 5242

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Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012 View Post

Same with Chase. The first bullet is BY ITSELF and is for people using their original house value. The second bullet is a SEPARATE CATEGORY for those who have made improvements and want to eliminate PMI based on those (mentions "current value").
Quicken's can be interpreted, I admit.

However, for Chase, the first bullet, the one by itself, only applies to people paying on the original amortization schedule. OP is not. OP paid ahead, so OP does not qualify for that bullet. OP has to fall into the CURRENT value bullets, which takes into account time.


However, I am going to end the interpretation debate.
I went strait to the source this time.
Fannie Mae Information about seasoning for loans 2-5 years, which must have 75% LTV, is about 2/3 down.

Freddie Mac was harder to track down. Their website is geared more towards the loan than the servicing, which this falls under. However, with my Google search, I found a matrix through Round Point which shows the criteria is the exact same. It is on page two. Row three is applicable for OP.
http://www.rpmservicing.com/wp-conte...al-Request.pdf


So, as I suspected, no matter who services the OPs loan, since it is conventional, the OP cannot remove the PMI until they have reached 2 years and 75% LTV. This is standard Freddie/Fannie requirements for all lenders/servicers.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:47 AM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
7,600 posts, read 17,629,190 times
Reputation: 8084
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
I ask them all the time and they tell me it's forever, end of story.
You must be asking the wrong people. Our MI reps from the various companies give us tips and tricks to MI cancellation or better ways to structure all the time. One of the latest tips is when is a premium refundable when a nonrefundable premium is paid?
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
6,724 posts, read 11,749,349 times
Reputation: 19361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
However, I am going to end the interpretation debate.
I went strait to the source this time.
Fannie Mae Information about seasoning for loans 2-5 years, which must have 75% LTV, is about 2/3 down.
You appear to be quoting from the section "Borrower-Initiated Termination of Conventional Mortgage Insurance Based on Current Property Value" (which requires at least 2-year "seasoning" of the loan); I am looking at the section "Borrower-Initiated Termination of Conventional Mortgage Insurance Based on Original Property Value" (which does NOT have the 2-year rule). I think the confusion may be that both of these circumstances would require an appraisal, which would find the current property value, but for the OP all that would matter is that the current property value is at least the original property value. (The section "Borrower-Initiated Termination of Conventional Mortgage Insurance Based on Current Property Value" is more for those who have made improvements on the property -- as we found in previous searches. These people are wanting to eliminate PMI not based on paying extra, as the OP did, but on the increased values of their property based on the improvements they made.)

In the section "Borrower-Initiated Termination of Conventional Mortgage Insurance Based on Original Property Value": "if the mortgage loan is a first lien mortgage loan closed on or after July 29, 1999 and is secured by a one-unit principal residence or second home: then the LTV ratio eligibility criterion is met on the date the mortgage loan balance is first scheduled to reach 80% (or actually reaches 80%) of the original value of the property." This appears to be the OP's situation. More to the point about the "2-year rule," in section 2, verification that the borrower has an acceptable payment record, it specifically discusses the OP's scenario about NOT having a loan for 2 years: "Note: When assessing the payment history for a mortgage loan that has been outstanding for fewer than 24 months (or for a current borrower who assumed a mortgage loan within the last 23 months), the servicer must apply the acceptable payment record criterion to the length of time the mortgage loan has been outstanding (or that has elapsed since the current borrower assumed the mortgage loan)." So if the OP's loan is <12 months old, he would have to meet the "stricter" 12-month payment rule of not having any payment 30 or more days past due in the past 12 months.

So clearly there ISN'T a 2-year rule for FannieMae, since their own guidelines include "rules" for those with loans <2 years old, AND they specifically say (in point 3, verify the value of the property is not less than its value at origination) that if the value is at least the value at origination, the servicer must terminate MI and notify the borrower. This appears to be the OP's situation (and it would require an appraisal).

The Freddie Mac link (from RoundPoint) has a box divided into different situations, and the first situation specifically says "any point in the life of the loan, based on the original value of the property" -- so does NOT have a 2-year rule. (Not sure why you are looking at the 3rd situation for the OP? His situation is the first, I think.)

Quote:
So, as I suspected, no matter who services the OPs loan, since it is conventional, the OP cannot remove the PMI until they have reached 2 years and 75% LTV. This is standard Freddie/Fannie requirements for all lenders/servicers.
But that's not what those sources say ... Sorry, I don't mean to continue this running argument, but Fannie Mae even gives us a rule for loans <2 years old, and the Freddie Mac/RoundPoint link has a criterion for those "anywhere in the life of the loan" -- including the first 2 years. In both of these cases, the current value would have to be at least the original value -- but if it is, the borrower can use the "based on original value of the property" guidelines.

And I'm still wondering about the other provisions the OP wrote about ... I hope he reports back at some point.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:35 PM
 
159 posts, read 365,332 times
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Default 2 to 5 years

My loan was

1 to 2 years - 80%
3 to 5 years - 75% (not 78%)
5 years or more - 80%

Assuming you made all payments on-time.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
6,724 posts, read 11,749,349 times
Reputation: 19361
Quote:
Originally Posted by exit18b View Post
My loan was

1 to 2 years - 80%
3 to 5 years - 75% (not 78%)
5 years or more - 80%

Assuming you made all payments on-time.
Why would you need MORE equity to cancel PMI if you've had your loan LONGER? (i.e. 3 to 5 years requires 25% but 1 to 2 years requires 20%) That doesn't make sense logically (not that these things always do! ) and does not appear to be in line with any guidelines no matter WHAT the situation). What were your other "details" (type of loan, how long ago, guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, etc.)?

Alas, OP hasn't come back to update us on his situation. There are federal guidelines for PMI removal on conventional loans (here's an official U.S. government site: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-...y-loan-en-202/ ) but lenders and servicers can allow for EARLIER cancellation as well under their own standards. (That's what my lender did with me.) The OP has described a situation in which his servicer is NOT following federal law, as far as I can tell.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:21 PM
 
15,389 posts, read 8,686,874 times
Reputation: 13776
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
I may very well be wrong, but I believe that PMI is for the life of the loan if it's FHA. Only if it's conventional can you have it removed once it goes below 80%. If I'm correct you would need to refinance to get rid of it.
Only if you got the loan after 2013. Any loans prior to that are grandfathered in, and can have PMI cancelled after 5 years and when a 78% loan-to-value is reached (of the original home value).

Last edited by ringwise; 07-27-2017 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Austin
7,078 posts, read 16,898,623 times
Reputation: 9484
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
I agree I should not, but I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
I ask them once a year at least and they send me a letter stating it's forever.
If you financed prior to 2013, your MIP is NOT lifetime. If you want to continue to pay it, don't argue with them. If you want it removed, you need to get the right person on the phone who understands you bought in 2005, you are below 78% LTV, and you want it removed. If you're area is under-water, you might not be at 78% and that might be why they keep telling you no. But, if you hit all the criteria to have it removed, they can't tell you it's lifetime when you don't have any paperwork showing it's lifetime...

I'm wondering if you refinanced or did a loan modification that you're not mentioning...
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:48 AM
 
159 posts, read 365,332 times
Reputation: 97
[QUOTE) Why would you need MORE equity to cancel PMI if you've had your loan LONGER? (i.e. 3 to 5 years requires 25% but 1 to 2 years requires 20%) That doesn't make sense logically (not that these things always do! ) and does not appear to be in line with any guidelines no matter WHAT the situation). What were your other "details" (type of loan, how long ago, guaranteed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, etc.)?

I thought the same thing. I am now looking at the requirements to Cancel PMI one pager that Chase Mortgage sent me.

Got the loan 7/2014. 5/1 Adjustable ARM, 30 yr. Freddie.

I know it does not make sense. Assuming house just tipping the odds more in their direction year 2 to 5.

less than 2 years - 80% or less
2 to 5 - 75% less or less
more than 5 years - 80% or less
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Old 10-23-2018, 04:56 PM
 
1 posts, read 86 times
Reputation: 15
Same problem now with WellFargo.

Had my loan for 6 years. Not been late on a payment. Original value in the appraisal now puts my below the 78% requirement as well.

WellsFargo said "your investor" valued the property at a lower price than the appraisal so you can either 1) pay us $20K now towards your premium to get under that new magical 78% value or 2) wait until 2022 when it will go away.

I asked if they could see the correct appraised value in their files, and they said yes, they can but it's not their issue.

So, they are essentially simply sitting on gold mine of charging people THOUSANDS of dollars for YEARS in extra fees under the guise of a paperwork error.

An unbelievable scam. If this isn't a class action, I don't know what is. Seriously.

I've filed a complaint with the CFPB.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
1,240 posts, read 481,284 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by exit18b View Post

less than 2 years - 80% or less
2 to 5 - 75% less or less
more than 5 years - 80% or less

Maybe since it's an ARM, as the interest rates go up your payments go up and you are more at risk of default?


But if that's what's in your loan contract you presumably knew it was there before you signed the contract.


If you are already down to 78% LTV consider refinancing the balance into a conventional mortgage where you don't have to pay for mortgage insurance.
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