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Old 07-29-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: New York City
1,836 posts, read 2,834,804 times
Reputation: 378

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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
How do you know that lender is holding the extra money?
Did the attorney tell you this?

Did the lender credit the 2,000 towards your loan amount?

The attorney has to justify all fees/costs/monies on the HUD.
The only way the lender is 'holding it' is if they applied it to the loan amount as a down payment.
It should've went to the seller not the lender.

If you say the lender is 'holding it', then they would need to apply it to your loan amount.

the full $5000 credit is on the HUD so the seller did not get the money. out of the $5000, $2000 was there to pay down the rate (which did not happen)

so maybe i'm using the wrong term by saying the lender is "holding 2K".

with that said: then where is that 2K from the loan that i'm paying interest on? the seller didnt get it and my rate didnt change. In fact, in early discussions with the lender, i WAS TOLD they would refund it. We threw everything in there to take advantage of the full seller concession.

in essense, i admit i was in cohoots with the lender with regard to the concession and refunds but post-closing i'm getting another story from them now.
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,102,357 times
Reputation: 1008
I guess I now see what happened.

Seller agreed to pay 5,000 towards closing.
Regular closing costs is at 3,000 but you agreed to pay some points to lower your rate. That was an extra 2,000 making the total 5,000.

Now the question is....what do you have in writing to show that the lender was promising to lower the rate if you X amount in discount points?

Look on the HUD...
If it says you paid 'discount points' (not origination fee), AND it says that they received Yield Spread Premium (should be in the 800lines) then they can get in huge trouble.

If a lender charges fees that they're not allowed to charge or didn't provide the service for the charge, then they HAVE to refund it to the borrower.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
1,036 posts, read 3,629,409 times
Reputation: 503
My question is the same as renriq... did the lender ever put in writing that you could get X% at 0 points OR you could have Y% at 1 point?

If they did and you paid 1 point and still received X% at closing, then you have a good case to claim it was not a "bona fide" point to buy down the rate. You can complain to the state agency regulating mortgages and see what happens....

If they only said "you get a better rate if you pay 1 point" and didnt tell you what rates you would have with or without, its kind of hard to prove that the rate you got was not "bought down". Sure maybe the lender used vague languages or made assurances, but if they didn't show solid examples on GFE of the options it makes it much harder to claim.
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: New York City
1,836 posts, read 2,834,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarrillo View Post
My question is the same as renriq... did the lender ever put in writing that you could get X% at 0 points OR you could have Y% at 1 point?

If they did and you paid 1 point and still received X% at closing, then you have a good case to claim it was not a "bona fide" point to buy down the rate. You can complain to the state agency regulating mortgages and see what happens....

If they only said "you get a better rate if you pay 1 point" and didnt tell you what rates you would have with or without, its kind of hard to prove that the rate you got was not "bought down". Sure maybe the lender used vague languages or made assurances, but if they didn't show solid examples on GFE of the options it makes it much harder to claim.
i got a GFE with a great rate, no point. This is the rate we closed with. In fact, i recall talking about buying down the rate but the broker talked me out of it saying that it would not be much and not really worth it.

What happend was that he talked me out of paying the point (because i didnt really need it [according to him]). He said we can still put the charge as part of the closing costs (to take full advantage of the seller concession) and then he will refund it to me post-closing. Probably when they sold the loan.

The loan closed, loan was sold, and the only one who took advantage of the seller concession WAS HIM.

My issue is that if he couldnt for whatever reason refund me the buy down point he put in the closing costs (that wasnt used) THEN HE SHOULD HAVE JUST LET ME BUY DOWN THE RATE. Instead, he says i didnt n need to buy it down, tells me we can put in the charge in closing costs, and then he can refund it back to me.

Problem is, the loan closes AND NOW THEY DON'T WANT TO REFUND IT.
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Old 07-29-2008, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 15,102,357 times
Reputation: 1008
Broker only gets a cut of the fees he charges....

If there is yield spread premium on the HUD, then you can report him.

If he didn't resend you a Good Faith estimate (that shows a point) at/before closing then you can report him.
Make sure you read the documents that you signed at closing. Make sure to read the lender documents....
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
1,036 posts, read 3,629,409 times
Reputation: 503
Defintely sounds like you got the short end there.... all money being exchanged should be on the HUD however. A loan officer charging a point or any fees and then passing them under the table to a buyer or any other party is not allowed.

The way that it SHOULD be done is the loan officer should have asked the lender to apply it towards the principle balance. That way the money was not lost and it would have benefited you with a lower sales price. Another option was to actually lower your rate of course, so you got some benefit out of the point.

Anytime ANYONE in a transaction advocates signing a document and then doing differently (behind everyone's back, under the table or otherwise) it should send up a red flag. Not only are you lying to the underwriters (telling them you are paying a point and then getting $2000 from your loan officer that is not disclosed) but its easy to get taken. I would look into your options for reporting them.
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Southeast Georgia
65 posts, read 216,019 times
Reputation: 46
Look on the papers. How much does it show the seller paid out? How much does it show you paid out? Did you actually pay that amount out? Does it show a discount point was paid for?
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