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Old 08-13-2008, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
1,036 posts, read 3,628,866 times
Reputation: 503

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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
Shame on Florida. All those years not even bothering to see who was behind (criminals) and what was behind (liar loans) the hijacking of the real estate market in the state. It took a grand jury in 2008?

FL wasn't alone- According to one press report, more than 40% of mortgage brokers in Indiana no longer have a license to do business in the state. The Indiana Secretary of State recently revoked licenses for 393 of the state's 950 mortgage brokerages for failure to comply with a new state law.

The law required all branch managers to have 3 years experience, pass a test and a background check. Its not like 40% failed to meet the standards, about 75 of the 393 had the mail "returned to sender" which means they had probably closed up shop. But still, ~300 of 950 brokers would not or could not comply with the new law.


One silver lining of the new law is that there will be a national all-originator registry for those in the mortgage industry. This is one of the few really good provisions in the 700-page bill and no one even mentions it.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
1,286 posts, read 2,595,721 times
Reputation: 249
well 90% of the loans i have done in the last 5 years have been I/O and/or ARMS, as well as combinations. In fact I think I did less than 10 30 year loans. I am doing an I/O ARM now for a client.

and in most cases the clients understood and new the products were. people do there own research these days. no matter how dumb people act, they know what there doing and how much they can afford.

Its not about the loan, its how about the person, there needs and goals.

I have no idea what the Bush Administration has to do with the economy. When a new president goes into office, the economical slate isnt wiped, lol. In fact in case you havent figured it out yet, the president has little to do with anything other than be a spokesman for the country and make strategic military desicions.

the housing market slumped. in turn has effected everything, add to taht gas prices, massive layoffs in the housing area and financial, on top of the normal layoffs from corporations to make money. the big 3 still failing miserably with there junk cars and mainly imported car parts. yes thats right, "american" cars are 70% imported parts. and honda, toyota and hyandia are 70% made in america, lol. got to love the genius of it.

another thing regarding licensing, it has nothing to do with doing mortgages either. the licensing is to make the mortgage broker aware of what the federal and state laws are regarding contract laws.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,262 posts, read 49,809,717 times
Reputation: 67091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
Yeah, there is lot's of blame to go around, but don't dare suggest that the swindling mortgage fraudsters who initiated all these bad loans are innocent, please tell me you are not that naive.

I keep hearing about these evil lenders...I mean, do people not _read_ the stuff they are signing? Can they not do math? Are we to believe that grown adults who want to own a house can't make responsible financial decisions because somebody "tricked" them?

People saw an opportunity to have more than they should have been able to afford, and their greed blinded them.

A lesson to always read the fine print, exhaustively ask questions, and learn that "too good to be true" often is.
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:05 AM
 
25,351 posts, read 37,507,217 times
Reputation: 13270
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
I was listening to the radio this morning. There was an ad for a credit counseling (I believe). But the first words out of their mouths was ; in debt ; its not your fault. Maybe its due to loss of a job, illness, or just hard luck.

So where does living beyond your means come in??? Will everyone blame hard luck on their foreclosures??

Get real ; it is your responsibility.

d
Most people are to blame them self, just like you stated. Only 4% had ARM's and no one can tell me that all 4% lost their job, were scammed and had health issues....you are right....they just gambled and lived way beyond their needs and now blame others and have others live with houses amongst them which are in distress and leave others to pay higher HOA's fees due to others not paying!!!
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:14 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,634 posts, read 16,217,607 times
Reputation: 2787
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
After having been assured by the professionals in that field that what they were doing was normal and reasonable. It is clear today that it was not...but that is because we chose not to remember how it was in 2005.
I bought in 2006. The mortgage company tried to sell me loans with crazy payments and adjustable rates. They tried to say my maximum qualification was 6x my salary. I simply looked at what the payment would be when it adjusted and said "I cannot afford that". It was really simple.
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:46 AM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,235,124 times
Reputation: 45820
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Garbage, unmitigated garbage. The number of civilian who have the skill and knowledge to know whether or not they were in over their head is very small. To master the arcane art of the mortgage on your own would take hundreds if not thousands of hours.

And note that all those professionals were wrong. None projected the bottom dropping out of the market driven almost exclusively by predatory pricing policies of lenders trying to dump non-producing assets. And that pricing policy has driven a significant pricing drop into a disaster.

Our leading local junk mortgage expert...the one who teaches the classes on mortgages to the RE community... just lost his own home in a foreclosure.

While the anarchists and libertarian cry for "self responsibiltiy" they do not even understand what happened. They cry that they should have known...but no one knew. If you were very unlucky you bought a home in Las Vegas during the market peak. You lost your equity and may well have no rational choice but to walk away. To behave irrationally because it makes Ron Paul happy is...in fact....irrational and probably indicates a problem in dealing with reality.

And thouse of you who urge others to committ financial suicide to meet some absurd goal from a Heinlen book should also have your brains checked by one skilled in that art.
Oh, please. There were plenty of financial writers, columnists, bankers, and mortgage industry specialists who pretty much said, "DON'T DO THIS" at the top of their collective lungs. In fact, there are huge swaths of the country where there's no foreclosure crisis at all, mainly because lenders and borrowers both were far too conservative to buy into this nonsense. In my city, one house in 1,800 is in foreclosure. Not exactly what I would call a meltdown. However, in Southern California, Nevada, and South Florida, a roll-the-dice mentality pervaded, so places like Fort Myers now has one foreclosure for every 67 homes.

What's more, in every closing, a closing attorney sits there and explains the details of your mortgage in detail. When we closed on our house two years ago on a simple thirty-year note, everything was explained to us. Every term of the loan document was read. What's more, if somebody took out an ARM, the closing attorney would have discussed precisely what would happen if interest rates inevitably rose from their historic lows. But the homebuyers said, "Cool," and just signed away.

People are responsible for the loans they take out. They know precisely how much of their monthly take-home it's going to suck out of their bank accounts. What's more, their appetites were far larger than their salaries. You cannot tell me that all this was going to be a surprise to them.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:02 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,508,894 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Oh, please. There were plenty of financial writers, columnists, bankers, and mortgage industry specialists who pretty much said, "DON'T DO THIS" at the top of their collective lungs. In fact, there are huge swaths of the country where there's no foreclosure crisis at all, mainly because lenders and borrowers both were far too conservative to buy into this nonsense. In my city, one house in 1,800 is in foreclosure. Not exactly what I would call a meltdown. However, in Southern California, Nevada, and South Florida, a roll-the-dice mentality pervaded, so places like Fort Myers now has one foreclosure for every 67 homes.
Sure there were doom prophecies ...and so were they there in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...welll you get the idea.

However a little challenge. Find anyone who precisely projected a housing melt down driven by the lenders dumping assets priior to 2006.

What percentage of your local homes were built or sold in mid 2004 to early 2007? I think you will find the impact of the problem runs very strongly with that number. Almost 25% of the housing stock built in Las Vegas (from 1990 to the present ) was constructed in that period. Over 40% of it sold in that period. Phoenix is similar. In both cities we got hit very hard simply because of the very heavy action in the target years...not because we were more profligate than other areas...just more action at the wrong time.

Quote:
What's more, in every closing, a closing attorney sits there and explains the details of your mortgage in detail. When we closed on our house two years ago on a simple thirty-year note, everything was explained to us. Every term of the loan document was read. What's more, if somebody took out an ARM, the closing attorney would have discussed precisely what would happen if interest rates inevitably rose from their historic lows. But the homebuyers said, "Cool," and just signed away.
Who told you that? First off it is flatly untrue in the west and secondarily that RE Attorneys understand mortgages well enough to explain the arcane products is most unlikely. And the closing attorney would have explained that one should plan on refinancing before the reset...presuming it possible as virtually all did.

Quote:
People are responsible for the loans they take out. They know precisely how much of their monthly take-home it's going to suck out of their bank accounts. What's more, their appetites were far larger than their salaries. You cannot tell me that all this was going to be a surprise to them.
And again you need to get it straight...everybody who bought in Las Vegas between 2005 and 2006 lost big. Often half the amount paid. Made no difference what kind of loan...the still got bombed. A minority may well be in a position to stand the loss but the majority cannot. To ascribe the outcome of a broad spread disaster to bad local behavior is simply wrong.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:57 PM
 
43 posts, read 189,878 times
Reputation: 32
Oh, how I love a swift rebuke by Olecapt! If only he were running for President! Pearls of wisdom.
If only Olecapt would respond to my DM seeking advice...I would be very happy!
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
1,286 posts, read 2,595,721 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Sure there were doom prophecies ...and so were they there in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005...welll you get the idea.

However a little challenge. Find anyone who precisely projected a housing melt down driven by the lenders dumping assets priior to 2006.

I got an email in spring of 2006 projecting the next 5 years of every metropolis. (This was supposed to be internal, but I have friends/colleagues that work at CB Richard Ellis) It layed out all the markets accordingly and is almost still spot on.

This is normal for the market to do this, high demand, now there is high supply. Didn't anyone notice that the larger builders that had planned developments held off starting them? Economists predicted all this. The federal reserve board saw it coming, they made the rates so low to attempt to avoid the cycle that happens every 10-15 years like clockwork. But they only stalled it and made it worse.



What percentage of your local homes were built or sold in mid 2004 to early 2007? I think you will find the impact of the problem runs very strongly with that number. Almost 25% of the housing stock built in Las Vegas (from 1990 to the present ) was constructed in that period. Over 40% of it sold in that period. Phoenix is similar. In both cities we got hit very hard simply because of the very heavy action in the target years...not because we were more profligate than other areas...just more action at the wrong time.

Naturally the most built out areas are going to be the most dramatically effect areas.
.................................................. ...........................
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Old 08-18-2008, 05:36 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,508,894 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerdave View Post
.................................................. ...........................
Love to see it. Just extract Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego and Charlotte.
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