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Old 09-04-2008, 02:29 PM
 
127 posts, read 378,267 times
Reputation: 103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
So.. financially it doesn't make sense to keep paying 2000 a month that is giong to ..well NOTHING.. and since foreclosure process takes awhile.. you live in it for free. You haven't had to pay the mortgage for months so that 2000 you had for living is now "extra".

As for me. I stopped paying (now shortselling, not foreclosing..) I've taken that money and invested it in our business, paid down some credit cards I took on when I had my kid and put a little away... hey.. I suddenly had 3000 month that I had to pay before available to me..

IN the end.. I have a little nest egg, was able to pay down debt..
Ok, I'm coming in a little late, but let me see if I understand this. You stop paying your mortgage, keep living in your house basically rent free and use the money that is SUPPOSED to be going towards the mortgage as outlined in mortgage papers that YOU signed for other purposes because hey - it's "extra" money! So basically it is you that is ripping off the bank. It's not the banks fault that you spent your savings to make improvements to your home. It's not the banks fault that you signed up for a risky mortgage that you ultimately could not afford. Unbelievable...

Last edited by rtjr; 09-04-2008 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 09-04-2008, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtjr View Post
Ok, I'm coming in a little late, but let me see if I understand this. You stop paying your mortgage, keep living in your house basically rent free and use the money that is SUPPOSED to be going towards the mortgage as outlined in mortgage papers that YOU signed for other purposes because hey - it's "extra" money! So basically it is you that is ripping off the bank. It's not the banks fault that you spent your savings to make improvements to your home. It's not the banks fault that you signed up for a risky mortgage that you ultimately could not afford. Unbelievable...
First of all.. lets get something straight here..

I bought a house and put money down. Yes.. I made a mistake in buying the house with an ARM.. (I have told my story throughout hte boards so I wont' go into it here)

When I went to refi I couldn't.. and so the payments adjusted from $3300/month to $4060 a month ( I was paying a 6.95% interest rate that adjusted 3% in the first adjustment and coudl go up from there depending on the LIBOR).

I tried for MONTHS to get it modified.. they wouldn't do it.

Come January I tried to pay ATLEAST the $3300 I HAD been paying.. they wouldn't accept PARTIAL payment... only the FULL monthly payment.

And that I just don't have every month..

So.. we had a decision to make.. bottom line is we were going to loose our house..

REfi was out, as the market tanked, our equity was gone AND the improvements we made didn't even help the value (new roof, boiler etc.. we put those things in because it needed it !!! We bought one the the LEAST expensive homes in the modest neighborhood at the time!!!).

So.. we stopped paying the mortgage because we simply couldn't.. Still tried speaking with the bank but the bank wasn't budging.

Next thing we decided to do was to short sale the house... the bank approved us short selling and it was on the market..

IN the meantime, while we were in the process of shortsaling , we weren't paying the mortgage because a) the monthy payment was no longer doable.. B) we were already walking away with NO money so why put even more in to pay down principle and interest.. kind of ridiculous and doesn't make sense and c) we needed to take that money and put it aside to replenish what we lost in fixing the fixer upper we bought so that we could find a rental and move out of state.

How exactly responsible would it have been to continue to pay what i couldn't afford for a hosue I was going to leave leaving myself 1) without a roof over my head and penniless afterward.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
First of all.. lets get something straight here..

How exactly responsible would it have been to continue to pay what i couldn't afford for a hosue I was going to leave leaving myself 1) without a roof over my head and penniless afterward.
The responsibility issue came into play before you signed the contract to buy that house which you couldn't afford. It's not rocket science. Do I expect anyone in your circumstances to do anything other than make excuses? Nope. But it is very annoying to those of us who do practice financial responsibility to see so many people getting out of their obligations.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
The responsibility issue came into play before you signed the contract to buy that house which you couldn't afford. It's not rocket science. Do I expect anyone in your circumstances to do anything other than make excuses? Nope. But it is very annoying to those of us who do practice financial responsibility to see so many people getting out of their obligations.
You have been rude, crude and well.. quite all high and might about this issue..

First off.. I never made excuses. I explained the circumstances surrounding my decision making process and I've explained the circumstances surrounding the entire issue MY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Lets get another thing straight here.. I DID NOT BUY A HOUSE I CAN NOT AFFORD!! I simply bought a house with a bad product of financing for said house.

Had I been given a FIXED interest rate, I wouldn't be in this situation. A fixed rate didnt' come about for me when purchasing for a combination of reasons.. one being that I was NOT OFFERED that option and simply told I did not qualify, at this time for a FIXED rate! Why was I told I wasn't qualified.. BECAUSE I HAD NO OPEN LINES OF CREDIT.. Hmm.. I think NOT having credit card was being fiscally responsible.

Yes.. I did then continue to buy my home. .. TO WHICH IPUT MONEY DOWN!! with the ARM.. thinking that I would simply be able to refi AFTER I had established more credit.

I find out NOW in retrospect that a) I was given misinformation and should have been offered a fixed rate slightly higher than the initial first rate on the ARM.. and that the reason I wasn't was pretty much BS... b) I discovered that markets could actually crumble so much that you could loose so much value in your home you become upside down in LTV DESPITE down payment etc.

Now.. as you say responsiblity should have come in WHEN I signed the documents.. Okay.. I did make a MISTAKE.. and have acknowledged that several times. ARMS are BAD PERIOD!!

If I had a magical time machine I'd go BACK and FIX the mistake I made and make the more "responsible" choice.. but unfortunately for me and so many other people INCLUDING those in the mortgage lending industry we don't have a magic ball that allows us to see the future.

That being said this post was about what happens AFTER the initial mistake was made and how people are behaving AFTER the fact! We can go to shoulda, coulda , woulda for eternity here!

NOW it's about takign responsibility and making choices AFTER you've made a mess for yourself and getting out of it as best you can. I believe I have worked hard to do EXACTLY that. I've had to figure out how to recover from losing my life savings in the down payment AND improvement of my home.. how to save my credit and what was the best solution for me and my family. Yes, I am going to make the BEST choice for me at the end of the day.. as the bank will have made the best choice for themselves at the end of the day..

And BTW.. you seemto direct all your anger on the homeowners.. are you forgetting that there is also another responsible party to those contracts.. the lenders?

If I wanted to...really wanted to in my state, I could live in my house for another year and let the house go to foreclosure which there would then be an overgrown lawn , boarded up windows and so forth dragging down the rest of my neighborhood.

Instead, I made the decision to put the house up for sale and short sale... to which I got the bank not one but 2 offers FULL APPRAISED value and pretty quickly I might add! This does two things.. gets the bank much more than it would in foreclosure and prevents a foreclosure from appearing on my credit record destroying my credit for 7 years. Now my credit is only in the toilet for maybe 2 years before I'd be mortgageable again.

Yes.. I did not pay for the house since January.. but again.. would I be more responsible if I threw good money after bad on a house where I was loosing my shirt (and far more than the bank lost too, btw.. as the first 2 years payments is interest heavy!) and then leave my house penniless? (and remember.. the mortgage contract I signed I was agreeing to pay back the mortgage AND if I didn't pay back said mortgage I would end up loosing the house to the bank who would repossess the house, sell it and take the proceeds... so I did NOT , not meet my obligation! There are two sides of the contract..one where there is somethign I do and if I fail to do then the bank gets my home.. and the bank enters into a contract knowing that there may someday arise the possibility that I may end up NOT being able to meet the original obligation and what they get is what is in the contract.. THE HOUSE! ) Yeah.. that is being responsible Instead I banked my money for my move out of state so that I could pay first and last on a new place, have a cushion when I move to the new state AND invest in my business which will allow me to ..well not end up homeless and penniless.

Sit there with your shoulda coulda woulda attitude. Believe me , if any of us could go back and time and reverse the mistakes we made we'd do it in a heartbeat.. Unless you have some magic time machine.. then just shut the heck up about it already!
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:58 PM
 
4,963 posts, read 3,921,790 times
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While I totally understand how angry you are in your situation, and if I was in that situation I would be annoyed too. But you have vocally said a few things that got to the people who are trying their hardest to understand.

Self employed people can get fixed rates ; we have done this 4 times in NY state. We just put down 20% ; my highest fixed rate is 7% on an investment property. I just bought a house in PA which has a 6% rate. So maybe you didnt check into the mortgage properly when you were buying. This is with a credit rate of 700.

Also, while you have bragged that you did a lot of work to the house ; up to $100,000 worth ; that amount is so high that maybe people are annoyed that you could put that amount into a house, then stop paying the mortgage and bank the money or pay down debts or whatever. As a self employed person, I would not have put that amount into a house in the first year or so. Maybe you got carried away with making things perfect. Last year I sank about $30,000 into a house ; roof, two bathrooms, new kitchen ; ok its not stainless steel, not marble but its what I could logically afford and knew I could pay back.

My comments that I am tired of people walking away from their debts still stand. While most of us are trying to keep our heads above water, it just doesnt seem fair that others seem to be able to walk away.

Good luck.








Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
You have been rude, crude and well.. quite all high and might about this issue..

First off.. I never made excuses. I explained the circumstances surrounding my decision making process and I've explained the circumstances surrounding the entire issue MY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Lets get another thing straight here.. I DID NOT BUY A HOUSE I CAN NOT AFFORD!! I simply bought a house with a bad product of financing for said house.

Had I been given a FIXED interest rate, I wouldn't be in this situation. A fixed rate didnt' come about for me when purchasing for a combination of reasons.. one being that I was NOT OFFERED that option and simply told I did not qualify, at this time for a FIXED rate! Why was I told I wasn't qualified.. BECAUSE I HAD NO OPEN LINES OF CREDIT.. Hmm.. I think NOT having credit card was being fiscally responsible.

Yes.. I did then continue to buy my home. .. TO WHICH IPUT MONEY DOWN!! with the ARM.. thinking that I would simply be able to refi AFTER I had established more credit.

I find out NOW in retrospect that a) I was given misinformation and should have been offered a fixed rate slightly higher than the initial first rate on the ARM.. and that the reason I wasn't was pretty much BS... b) I discovered that markets could actually crumble so much that you could loose so much value in your home you become upside down in LTV DESPITE down payment etc.

Now.. as you say responsiblity should have come in WHEN I signed the documents.. Okay.. I did make a MISTAKE.. and have acknowledged that several times. ARMS are BAD PERIOD!!

If I had a magical time machine I'd go BACK and FIX the mistake I made and make the more "responsible" choice.. but unfortunately for me and so many other people INCLUDING those in the mortgage lending industry we don't have a magic ball that allows us to see the future.

That being said this post was about what happens AFTER the initial mistake was made and how people are behaving AFTER the fact! We can go to shoulda, coulda , woulda for eternity here!

NOW it's about takign responsibility and making choices AFTER you've made a mess for yourself and getting out of it as best you can. I believe I have worked hard to do EXACTLY that. I've had to figure out how to recover from losing my life savings in the down payment AND improvement of my home.. how to save my credit and what was the best solution for me and my family. Yes, I am going to make the BEST choice for me at the end of the day.. as the bank will have made the best choice for themselves at the end of the day..

And BTW.. you seemto direct all your anger on the homeowners.. are you forgetting that there is also another responsible party to those contracts.. the lenders?

If I wanted to...really wanted to in my state, I could live in my house for another year and let the house go to foreclosure which there would then be an overgrown lawn , boarded up windows and so forth dragging down the rest of my neighborhood.

Instead, I made the decision to put the house up for sale and short sale... to which I got the bank not one but 2 offers FULL APPRAISED value and pretty quickly I might add! This does two things.. gets the bank much more than it would in foreclosure and prevents a foreclosure from appearing on my credit record destroying my credit for 7 years. Now my credit is only in the toilet for maybe 2 years before I'd be mortgageable again.

Yes.. I did not pay for the house since January.. but again.. would I be more responsible if I threw good money after bad on a house where I was loosing my shirt (and far more than the bank lost too, btw.. as the first 2 years payments is interest heavy!) and then leave my house penniless? (and remember.. the mortgage contract I signed I was agreeing to pay back the mortgage AND if I didn't pay back said mortgage I would end up loosing the house to the bank who would repossess the house, sell it and take the proceeds... so I did NOT , not meet my obligation! There are two sides of the contract..one where there is somethign I do and if I fail to do then the bank gets my home.. and the bank enters into a contract knowing that there may someday arise the possibility that I may end up NOT being able to meet the original obligation and what they get is what is in the contract.. THE HOUSE! ) Yeah.. that is being responsible Instead I banked my money for my move out of state so that I could pay first and last on a new place, have a cushion when I move to the new state AND invest in my business which will allow me to ..well not end up homeless and penniless.

Sit there with your shoulda coulda woulda attitude. Believe me , if any of us could go back and time and reverse the mistakes we made we'd do it in a heartbeat.. Unless you have some magic time machine.. then just shut the heck up about it already!
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
While I totally understand how angry you are in your situation, and if I was in that situation I would be annoyed too. But you have vocally said a few things that got to the people who are trying their hardest to understand.

Self employed people can get fixed rates ; we have done this 4 times in NY state. We just put down 20% ; my highest fixed rate is 7% on an investment property. I just bought a house in PA which has a 6% rate. So maybe you didnt check into the mortgage properly when you were buying. This is with a credit rate of 700.

I have said that I was misinformed and misguided about the mortgage. I didn't neccesarily say I didn't geta fixed BECAUSE I was self employed. I was told that I didn't qualify for a fixed because of a combination of being self employed AND what my current credit score was. It wasn't a bad score, but it wasn't great . It wasn't great because I didn't have current open lines of credit. It was only on these forums that another mortgage broker informed me that I should have been offerred that ARM AND a Fixed rate mortgage but at a slightly higher interest than what was offered at the ARM .. so lets say I was offered a 7.95% fixed or an 8 as opposed to a 6.95 starting rate that jumped to 9.95%. I might have been able to meet that.

Also, while you have bragged that you did a lot of work to the house ; up to $100,000 worth ; that amount is so high that maybe people are annoyed that you could put that amount into a house, then stop paying the mortgage and bank the money or pay down debts or whatever. As a self employed person, I would not have put that amount into a house in the first year or so. Maybe you got carried away with making things perfect. Last year I sank about $30,000 into a house ; roof, two bathrooms, new kitchen ; ok its not stainless steel, not marble but its what I could logically afford and knew I could pay back.

Ah.. no the $100K figure included 2 years of mortgage payments, my initial downpayment AND the improvemes.. all of which we did over a 2 year period and did the work oursevles. It included new roof, new heating system, compete reinsulation of first floor, installation of high hats and rewiring of a lot of the electric, replacing plumbing pipes, fixing a broken inground sprinkler system (some pipes were burst underground) , all the sheetrocking, moldings, floors etc.. it was ALOT of work... but the house needed it.. and it wasn't perfect.. the second floor we didn't do as much but it didnt' need as much. WE were able to chose good product because we saved on labor, as my husband did all the work.


My comments that I am tired of people walking away from their debts still stand. While most of us are trying to keep our heads above water, it just doesnt seem fair that others seem to be able to walk away.

Good luck.
Well.. walking away when you can pay is one thing.. but if the people find that they can't pay are walking away.. they would only end up benig pushed out anyway. I"m sure there are a few that could meet their obligation but are simply walking because they are upside down..

BUT.. you also have to consider something here. A lot of people buy a home to live in..but they also count on the appreciation over time of that home for their retirement or to be able to use teh equity built over time to help pay for the HUGE college bills we now face...thanks to skyrocketing cost of education helath care, etc. As for retirement, this becomes a vehicle too and more important than ever with SS being dwindled away and non existent by the time they will need it. If someone had a 401K that wasn't performing they too would dump that 401K (although 401K's have a better chance of recovery in the future than does dwindled property values..especiall those bought in the bubble).

Is it the best thing to do? Welll maybe, mabye not... but at the end of the day we all have to make decisions that are best for us. Do you think the bank cares? They would drop whatever they needed to like a hot potato if it bettered their bottom line.. and so some homeowners are seeing there houses plummit and their investment in their future dissappear and it becomes better to walk away and start over (this is NOT my situation.. but what others walking away are doing)

No one is purposely trying to put the screws to anyone else..but at the end of the day.. when they get old and need money for retirment they will only have themselves to look to.. either that or you'll be paying for them when they go on public assistance ..

Be upset this happened, by all means. There is a lot of blame to go around.. and hopefully it won't happen again.. but people are handed new circumstances they must navigate through them in the way that is best for them and their families. If they feel it is to stay that's great.. but if they feel it is to walk away then that's what they feel is best for them.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,862,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
... then just shut the heck up about it already!
Sure thing, as long as you join me. Because really, those of us paying our bills don't have particularly congenial feelings for those of you who do not.

By the way, okaydorothy -- you kick butt. Thank you for being financially wise!
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:53 PM
 
127 posts, read 378,267 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
You have been rude, crude and well.. quite all high and might about this issue..

Unless you have some magic time machine.. then just shut the heck up about it already!
If you cannot stomach differing opinions and interpretations of your situation, I would suggest not putting your life story out on a public forum. The fact is, I don't know you and really feel no ill will towards you personally. You obviously made a mistake when you signed onto your mortgage. But it's these types of mistakes that are a big reason why we are all suffering through a dismal housing market right now. And you can blame the lenders all you want, but in the end, everyone is responsible for their OWN fiscal well being. And that includes being diligent and educating yourself on what you are getting into - no matter what some slick mortgage broker tells you.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:32 AM
 
4,963 posts, read 3,921,790 times
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Thank you. It galls me to see people who dont pay their taxes, then dont pay their mortgage, then blame everyone else for their woes, then walk away and brag about it ; even to the extent that they are going to take things that are in the house that are not rightfully theirs.
I came to this country with nothing, and refuse to go back to that situation. I will do my hardest to stay ahead and there is only one way in our house ; bills are paid first always. Then personal responsibility, then whatever is leftover is ours to enjoy.
d







Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Sure thing, as long as you join me. Because really, those of us paying our bills don't have particularly congenial feelings for those of you who do not.

By the way, okaydorothy -- you kick butt. Thank you for being financially wise!
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,192 times
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Let's put this into perspective Okaydorthy and sushi shall we;

Since so many of you hve referred to signing up for the ARM as a gamble.. then lets use your 'gambling in Vegas" anology shall we.

From here on in the MOrtgage lenders/Wall Street will be referred to as "The House" . and the homeowner as the patron.

Patron sits down at the table and the bet is this. The house bets that you will buy a house and use their money. You bet that you will buy the house and pay back that money. If you loose the bet and don't pay back the money, you loose your house. So you are gambling your house, money you put down and into the house. The house is betting that you will pay it back and if you don't they'll get the house. If they actually win the bet they'll get a windfall of profits on the interest you are paying on that loan for years to come. They kind of have a litte of an advantage here since either way they will get someting.. so they don't neccesarily loose. The stakes, however are much higher for the patron.

Now that bet between the patron and the house is simply that. The negatives of loosing the bet affect ONLY the patron making the bet. The person to the right or lfet of them doesn't loose a THING. The HOUSE however, has several tables throughout the casino and are taking ALOT of bets. The HOUSE is the ONLY one who can manage how much of a "gamble" they are willing to take adn wether they want to wager the bets with the person at their table based on how high of a risk that bet is between the house and the patron. The patron has NO IDEA what other bets the house is making.. because , well they couldn't possibly know.

So..it becomes the HOUSES responsibility to manage it's risk on those multiple bets. Apparently the house in this mortgage situation, took on way to many patrons that were high risk for a failed bet. So, while each individual looses their bet and forfiets their house as a result of that loss, the house now finds themselves with.. well too much loss from taking too much risk.

See.. each of us took on PERSONAL risk.. we only risked for OURSELVES.. NOT for you. HOw could we? The banks and the mortgage people though.. they were gambling with a much larger financial picture and ultimately the housing and the market economy! THEY took the foolish risk that in the end is causing people to their left and right or OTHER CASINO's... who ALSO took on too much risk, the pain.

Be upset that people made some bad choices or some mistakes.. but be REALLY angry at the banks for making such risky gambles which ultimately tanked the market and put the economy in a tailspin. THEY are the ones that had the advantge to see what was happening. Joe homeowner could't possibly know that by taking a chance no his mortgage, THIS would happen.

And Okaydorthy.. I admit my mistakes...but yuo may seriously want to reconsider calling us "bad guys".. First, I NEVER break the law, nor have I here. Yes, I did mess up when it came to my income taxes as a self employed person...lesson learned there.. BUT HOW DARE YOU . refer to us as "bad guys". I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs and beyond a traffic ticket here and there I have NEVER ONCE broken the law. I'm honest adn terrible at lying and have been told that I'm too honest too a fault! I"m an extremely spiritual person.. I'm NOT the bad guy.. I'm just a person who made a mistake and am now paying the piper for it.

The bad guy is the banks that were supposed to truly KNOW what they were doing.. were the ones that gave out $400K mortgages to people making $2500/month! I didn't know they gave a mortgage to someone like that? They are the ones that broke their own rules of lending standards because they saw the beaty eyed green monster that has now spun this market into turmoil. AND THEY are the ones going to government with their hands out (Wall street!) to clean up after them and take on THEIR losses!
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