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Old 09-05-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,875,361 times
Reputation: 1925

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Justify it all you want, it doesn't change the facts.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:49 AM
 
4,965 posts, read 3,945,308 times
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Funny that you can try to explain things. Believe it or not, I also dont do drugs, dont drink, never have been arrested etc.

But I made a commitment to pay a certain amount every month to the bank. In your previous posts, you mentioned it was your dh's fault, that taxes caught up with your business and that your credit wasnt perfect. Did that not tell you something??

I just said I am tired of paying for others mistakes. I dont think you would be too happy with me if I was in your situation and you were paying for my mistakes. People over extended themselves and yet it is the banks fault?? Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to sign the papers. Yes the banks do hold some responsibility but the consumer who put themselves in this situation holds 80% of the responsibility. One house I have cannot be sold as the house next door is boarded up ; Oh I could sell it if I wanted to drop the price by half. Am I will to do that ; nope. I will jsut put up with the tenants who pay when they feel like it, and hope that it will work out in the end.

Good luck.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,119,376 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
Funny that you can try to explain things. Believe it or not, I also dont do drugs, dont drink, never have been arrested etc.

But I made a commitment to pay a certain amount every month to the bank. In your previous posts, you mentioned it was your dh's fault, that taxes caught up with your business and that your credit wasnt perfect. Did that not tell you something??

First off.. I didn't blame my husband entirely..BUT he did mess up with his taxes BEFORE we met.. As for credit cards.. don't knowwhat you are referring to. I've mentioned several times that I had no recent open lines of credit. .. I di dmess up with cards when I was 18, 19 but PAID THEM all off by the time I was 25 adn swore off credit cards.. sowhen i wnet to get a loan I had no open lines.. THAT was what they were concerned with. Who would have thought that NOT buying things on credit could bite you in the ass!

I just said I am tired of paying for others mistakes. I dont think you would be too happy with me if I was in your situation and you were paying for my mistakes. People over extended themselves and yet it is the banks fault?? Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to sign the papers. Yes the banks do hold some responsibility but the consumer who put themselves in this situation holds 80% of the responsibility. One house I have cannot be sold as the house next door is boarded up ; Oh I could sell it if I wanted to drop the price by half. Am I will to do that ; nope. I will jsut put up with the tenants who pay when they feel like it, and hope that it will work out in the end.

Good luck.
How exactly are YOU paying for MY mistakes!! Are you paying my tax bill? Are you paying my mortgage? NO.. Is YOUR credit score in the toilet now because of missed payments.. was it YOUR money that I lost in my home? I have not used not ONE government program in this situation.

Yes.. the individual homeowners over extended themselves..sure.. BUT GUESS WHAT.. THE BANKS OVER EXTENDED THEMSELVES WAY BEYON ANYTHING A LITTLE JOE HOMEOWNER DID AND THEY DID IT WITH YOUR 401K'S ETC.. LOL. That's the part you don't get.. Little Joe Homeowner doesn't control the market.. they are just one little person. My mistake is only supposed to affect ME and ME ONLY.. and under normal circumstances it would have affected only myself!

BUT.. the fact that my mistake was the same mistake made by 1 million plus people.. hmm.. should clue you in to the fact that there is a greater force at work here than just one persons mistake!!

And.. it's also important to note.. that while I am contributing to the "problem" I'm also a victim of the problem.. BECAUSE if the market had been a normal market.. one that did not collapse (which was initially caused by the subprime debacle to which I am NOT a subprime) I would be financed into a fixed mortgage rate and happily paying the mortgage on my home.

As for not paying my obligation.. what part of I CAN'T don't you get? I cant' squeeze blood from a stone.. I have nothing I could give up or do differently that would make me find another $800 a month that my payment went up after the 1st adjustment.. and it could go a lot higher. Hmm.. Iguess I could cut my $856/month medical insurance that I pay for me and my son.. but then being a juvenile diabetic for the last 18 years I think I would be irresponsible to go uninsured... never mind not having insurance for my son! Oh.. and by the governemnt standards I make too uch money for any programs out there.. the usually hole that middle class falls through. Maybe I could just not heat my house this coming winter.. the pipes will burst, but atleast te mortgage would be paid Maybe I could just go without car insurance.. oh but wait.. law dictates I must have that. Can't give up the cars we have.. because that helps usgo and do the things we need to do to make money. Internet and phone.. also crucial part of our business so can't give that up (and if anyone out there thinks that cell phones and internet are not neccesity you're living in the dark ages.. in order to compete in this day and age you need it or you're left in the dust). I guess I could always not eat.. maybe we'lljust eat on Tuesdays and Thursdays and an occassional Sunday so i can cut back on groceries. .I could allow my son to walk around without diapers to save money on that

Can't cut out vacations you never take!

See. .that's what you dont understand.. if I COULD pay my mortgage I WOULD!!!! I didnt' simply CHOOSE not to be able to pay my mortgage.. duh!

Each individual is ultimately responsible for their own mistakes.. and I take responsiblity for mine.. BUT there is a greater force at work here than my personal mistakes.. and THAT is the mistakes made by WALL STREET adn te BANKS That actually control the market! THEY allowed this to happen.. I wasn't going uot giving mortgages for $500K to people making $2500/month!
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,875,361 times
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...and yet, you end up reducing your debt, building your business, and ending up with a "nest egg" despite all this. Look, the fact is that you posted your personal business on a public forum, and for some reason seemed to expect a lot of sympathy and pats on the back. Yet you're surprised when there are some of us here who have no sympathy for you because you created your own problems?

Nothing catastrophic happened to you that made you lose your house -- you chose a risky mortgage instead of waiting until you could get a fixed rate. You chose to overimprove that house with money that might better have been used elsewhere. Bottom line is you are the one responsible for your mistakes, except all of the rest of us are paying for you and all those like you who also made bad financial decisions. How fair is that?

Yes, there's resentment among those of us who responsibly handled our finances because we are being affected by the decisions you and others made. We ARE paying for your mistakes. Oh, and the fact that you're not the only one that made those mistakes doesn't make you any less culpable for them. "Everyone else is doing it!" has never been an appropriate defense for anything.
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Old 09-05-2008, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,119,376 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
...and yet, you end up reducing your debt, building your business, and ending up with a "nest egg" despite all this. Look, the fact is that you posted your personal business on a public forum, and for some reason seemed to expect a lot of sympathy and pats on the back. Yet you're surprised when there are some of us here who have no sympathy for you because you created your own problems?

Nest egg perhaps is the wrong word.. it indicates that I have a ton of money.. I don't.. by nest egg. I mean enough to pay first and last months rent, moving costs and some money aside to pay the basic bills of rent, medical and car insurance, heat and electric as well as a few other obligations for atleast 4 months while we estabish ourselves and the business ina new location. I am by no means sitting on a TON of money.. and I'm a nervous wreck about our ability to keep inocme flowing in while taking our business elsewhere. By investing in my "business" I simply took what I would have been paying to the mortgage company (which was my $3000/month) and invested it back into thebusiness.. plus that little cushion I mention above. Do you think it responsible of me to be loosing my house AND leaving myself penniless forced to live in the car with my son? How retarded is that!

Nothing catastrophic happened to you that made you lose your house -- you chose a risky mortgage instead of waiting until you could get a fixed rate. You chose to overimprove that house with money that might better have been used elsewhere. Bottom line is you are the one responsible for your mistakes, except all of the rest of us are paying for you and all those like you who also made bad financial decisions. How fair is that?

I never indicated that it was "catastrophic"..that was your words not mine. But it is a horrible experience, one I wouldn't want to go through again and one I hope no one ever finds themselves in. It' s stressfull , emotional and just.. well horrible.. nothing near catastrophic. Don't put words into my mouth!

Nothing was overimproved.. we certainly didn't go lavish.. most was bought at Home Depot and my hsuband did the work himself.. it just needed a lot.. heating systemdidnt' work, roof was old. .etc. Where in my statements have I not said tha I've made mistakes? Get off it already . ...

YOU are not paying for my mistakes.. YOU are paying for the failed banking system that made far worse decisions than my personal ones..ones thatgambled with your 401K's and the market.. YOU are paying for the banks that are now looking to the federal government to bail them out of their bad investments.. NO ONE is bailing me out nor am I asking for anyone to do so.. somthing you are conveniently overlooking.

I didn't give out shiesty loans !! THe mortgage industry did.

Yes, there's resentment among those of us who responsibly handled our finances because we are being affected by the decisions you and others made. We ARE paying for your mistakes. Oh, and the fact that you're not the only one that made those mistakes doesn't make you any less culpable for them. "Everyone else is doing it!" has never been an appropriate defense for anything.
Never said I did it because EVERYONE ELSE WAS. Where did you read that i said that? As for my resentment.. seems that you have more resentment than I could ever have.. you sound pretty dang hateful and angry.. whta I resent from those like you are the judgements and the ignorant blanket statements you make about it all.. NOT thefact that I'm in this mess.. why would I resent you? You had nothing to do with it..

But don't stand up here and pass judgement on people for making a mistake.. label them as bad people or even irresponsible and stupid. I'm sure you'ev gone through your life and made a few mistakes yourself.. ones I'm sure your not proud of. It just so happens that many people have made th same mistake I did. .I didn't make it because others did, nor did they because I was and to suggest that I even hinted to that is just ridiculous. I was simply pointing out that the fact that so many people made the same mistake indicates that there was something greater than the individuals at work here... that's all.

Now.. would you like a tissue for that bloody nose of yours.. I know the air is a little thin up there on your high horse. Because you are so perfect right.. that you never make a bad decision a mistake or a wrong choice
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:09 PM
 
4,965 posts, read 3,945,308 times
Reputation: 2918
I am paying for your mistakes indirectly. I am self employed, have good credit, put dow a good amount on buying a house. But now because of people like you, it is harder for me to get a mortgage. Also as your house was a short sale, your neighbours will suffer as the price you sold for was probably lower than they would like. That happened to my area ; one person paid $525,000 for a house ; only to be sold earlier this year for $375,000. It was a short sale.

Also if you didnt pay the taxes and their was a lien ; yes, it was forgiven in that you didnt have to pay it, but us all as tax payers pay for it indirectly. While things may not come out of my hand directly, we all pay eventually.

Health ins ; we were paying over $1400 per month for insurance. When that became too much my dh went out and got a regular job that does pay health insurance. While his weekly pay is terrible, long term it is the best situation that we have.

Good luck in PA. But learn from this whole lesson.

d
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 7,875,361 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post

BUT.. the fact that my mistake was the same mistake made by 1 million plus people.. hmm.. should clue you in to the fact that there is a greater force at work here than just one persons mistake!!
Translation: "Everyone else was doing it!"
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,119,376 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
I am paying for your mistakes indirectly. I am self employed, have good credit, put dow a good amount on buying a house. But now because of people like you, it is harder for me to get a mortgage. Also as your house was a short sale, your neighbours will suffer as the price you sold for was probably lower than they would like. That happened to my area ; one person paid $525,000 for a house ; only to be sold earlier this year for $375,000. It was a short sale.

oKAY.. let me try this again. .I had money that I put down. I had pretty good credit and actually when I went for a refi last summer I had great credit. I have a good paying self employed position. .. and I managed to save money for dowm payment and improvements. So I'm no different from you in that respect.

The difference is that in 2005 with a child on the way it was time to purchase a home. The difference also is in the fact that I was misguided and misinformed and took an ARM mortgage.

NOw.. short sale DOES NOT MEAN that you sell the house for LESS THAN IT'S WORTH ON THE MARKET. .it means you sell it for LESS THAN YOU OWE ON THE INITIAL MORTGAGE.. BIG DIFFERENCE!!! As a matter of fact the bank appraiser came in and appraised it and found out what it's full market value was now on the market.. $120K LESS than it was when I first bought the house in 2005. But guess what.. I sold the house for FULL MARKET APPRAISED VALUE.. and not a penny less. Had I sold for LESS than the appraised value than I could see the merit to your response.. and had I let the house go to foreclosure it probably would have sold for less. So I am NOT contributing to the decline price of the neighborhood!

Now..the reason why I couldn't refinance when the time came was BECAUSE THE MARKET WAS ALREADY IN A STEEP DECLINE THANKS TO THE SUBPRIME MORTGAGES GOING BUST. SO despite my having good credit (all it took was the mortgage I paidn on time for 2 years and 1 or 2 open lines of credit.. all paid on time too) I couldn't refinance BECAUSE banks stopped offering the products to self employed individuals (I didn't cause that stoppage.. the people before me did). BECAUSE the market came down so much my home was too high in Loan to value ration to refinance in the current market condition.

Had the subprime mortgages.. those mortgages with unrealistic sustainable initial interest rates.. meaning really low .. think 3% initial etc. That had someone making $2500 month not taken out a $400 mortgage, they wouldn't have started to default thereby sinking property values.. thereby locking the mortgage industry up and me out! I would right now be in a mortgage that was fixed and probably at the same and similar rate I had been paying for the last 2 years!!!

See the snowball effect.. it's like dominos... the first set of bad mortgages the caused the second set of bad mortgages.. a ripple effect.. so as much as I am contributing to the problem I'm also a victime of the problem because otherwise I would be fixed and all would be fine! YOu can't seem to grasp that concept.

Also if you didnt pay the taxes and their was a lien ; yes, it was forgiven in that you didnt have to pay it, but us all as tax payers pay for it indirectly. While things may not come out of my hand directly, we all pay eventually.

First.. the taxes are federal.. not local . Those are paid, thank you. As for my federal tax lien.. that in NO WAY affects you .. As a matter of fact th government is not only getting the principal but interest and penalties too! So your argument on that point is mute... it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with you and affects you not one bit!

Health ins ; we were paying over $1400 per month for insurance. When that became too much my dh went out and got a regular job that does pay health insurance. While his weekly pay is terrible, long term it is the best situation that we have.

Good luck in PA. But learn from this whole lesson.

d
As for the self employed verse job thing..well there are several reasons why working self employed works out better for me. All of which I'm not going to get into..

But.. now that Im'moving to PA I'm getting insurance that covers ALL THREE of us.. husband, myself and my child for over $300 less than it cost me in NY for me and my son! It's very regional.

I think it's a sad state that people have to be slaves to someone else to get something so basic as medical coverage! That taking a job vs. making your own way in business is something you need to do as opposed to actually wanting to do. I don't mind paying for health costs.. but what we pay for healthcare in this country is ridiculous. As a result going towork for someone else won't offer much help, for as the costs continue to rise employers will be cutting down and even out such things.It's actually disgusting and is very touchy subject for me. It will be reflected in how I vote in this and all upcoming elections.
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:01 PM
 
127 posts, read 378,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
So I am NOT contributing to the decline price of the neighborhood!
The fact that your house had to be put on the market because you could not afford your resetting mortgage just adds to the oversupply of homes which in turn results in the inevitable fall in prices so yes, your situation just like many others like you is contributing to the decline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
Had the subprime mortgages.. those mortgages with unrealistic sustainable initial interest rates.. meaning really low .. think 3% initial etc. That had someone making $2500 month not taken out a $400 mortgage, they wouldn't have started to default thereby sinking property values.. thereby locking the mortgage industry up and me out!
So now you are blaming those who took out subprime mortgages before for your mistake when in actuality, you have followed a very similar path. You took out an ARM - that ARM reset and you could not afford the higher payment - wow, sounds familiar.
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,119,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtjr View Post
The fact that your house had to be put on the market because you could not afford your resetting mortgage just adds to the oversupply of homes which in turn results in the inevitable fall in prices so yes, your situation just like many others like you is contributing to the decline.



So now you are blaming those who took out subprime mortgages before for your mistake when in actuality, you have followed a very similar path. You took out an ARM - that ARM reset and you could not afford the higher payment - wow, sounds familiar.
Oh for christ sake people... WHAT I'M TYRING TO DO IS TO GET YOU TO SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE. In a "normal" market the fact that I took out an ARM wouldn't have been a problem.

The problem is that the market was by no means normal .. in retrospect I bought too high.. and also I did not know that the mortgage industry was setting itself up for diasaster by making bad loans in the first place!!

What I'm trying to tell you is that each individual homeowner in trouble does not control the market.. WALL STREET AND THE BANKS DO. They screwed up BIG TIME. .They handed out mortgages to people that couldn't afford a home AT ALL.. and YES.. homeowners have some culpability in it.. but to say that the homeowners have 80% of the blame is just plain ridiculous!!!

I'm NOT a subprim.. and ARM does not mean subprime.. heck there are PRIME mortgages out there that are ARMS!! I didn't even get a LOW RATE!! My initial rate was still well above what the best rates offered were at the time by well over 1 point!

I'm trying to make you all see that there is such a bigger picture out there.. and that some of us just had unfortunate timing... my timing was unfortunate. Had I purchased in 2004 for example, I would have refinanced in 2006 and would have been set into a fixed mortgage well before the market decline.. THAT'S what I'm trying to get through to all of you!!

Instead you just want to chastise, judge call us names.

Do you forget that th ebank has to sign off on these mortgages ? I stated my income honestly AND I even had to show them one years bank statements to prove I had money coming in! I didn't lie.. I knew the adjustmetns would be unaffordable..I took a gamble that I would be able to refi BEFORE the adjustment. .and I did all that I needed to do to make that happen. .THe bank very well knew it too! They too took the gamble..

The problem is they took too many gambles and on some people that were really high risk.. ! How did I know that they gave out so many bad loans to so many people..

You think if I saw this coming I would have bought a house.. HELL NO! I wouldn't have.. I had NO IDEA what was coming down the pike! and neither did most of the individuals who took out mortgages like mine.

I would have LOVED to have been in a fixed rate mortgage.. I was juts not offered one.. for BS reason, perhaps.. but I dont' have a time machine and a magic crystal ball to either go back and fix it. .nor cuold I see the future.

I'm not whining,complaining or blaming.. just trying to give a little perspective here.. My situation SUCKS big time, but I think I've handled it as best I can and have learned a lot from it..

But I will not be called stupid, irresponsible and a "bad guy" by people who can not seem to wrap their head around the much bigger picture at play here!!
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