U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Mortgages
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-15-2008, 08:54 AM
 
25,334 posts, read 37,471,570 times
Reputation: 13249

Advertisements

All the once I looked up were short sales....all comparable sales are "normal sales added with the last one as a short sale, but the I guess the realtors are desperate and list a house so low that they hope a bidding war will start....and the price will go up (didn't happen), or they are doing it to get phone calls and try to get these potential buyers to other properties.

With the high amounts that the mortgage companies are going to lose in cases are this and how the lack of responsibility showed in these cases are handled....it shows that these houses will be going to be foreslosed and many bad realtors are still working and try everything...but not in the best interest.
Also many short sales have been on the market priced very low, went under contract and came back on the market for higher prices...that shows the listing prices were not accepted by the lender and that these prices are so unrealistic and many have had their money in escrow for weeks or months just because realtors are not able to come up with realistic numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-15-2008, 10:13 AM
 
Location: central, between Pepe's Tacos and Roberto's
2,086 posts, read 6,097,275 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schousse View Post
Is the Subject a non-distressed sale?
Nope. The subject property is bank-owned, as are most of the subject properties in purchase transactions in Vegas.

Let me ask you this, as an appraiser what is your take on the lender guidelines I posted regarding appraisals? If the subject property is a non-distressed sale, but the only sales comps in the last 3 months within a mile are distressed sales, how would you handle that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 12:41 PM
 
Location: OK
2,717 posts, read 6,290,623 times
Reputation: 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddys///M3 View Post
Nope. The subject property is bank-owned, as are most of the subject properties in purchase transactions in Vegas.

Let me ask you this, as an appraiser what is your take on the lender guidelines I posted regarding appraisals? If the subject property is a non-distressed sale, but the only sales comps in the last 3 months within a mile are distressed sales, how would you handle that?
If the majority of the sales in the area are REO and/or distress sales, then that is what your market is.

However, if you have a non-distress property then I would ask the lender if they can expand their guidelines a little to go beyond a mile and 6 months, making sure I had a competent appraiser who can deal with time adjustments etc. If you can go beyond a mile perhaps there are competing neighborhoods with non-distressed sales that can be used as comps.

Or try and find another lender.

I can't blame the lenders .... they want to make sure they won't be lending on a property that has already declined in value by the time the file goes to closing. I don't envy you being in that market.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
1,286 posts, read 2,594,674 times
Reputation: 249
they don't have to be 3 months, that's just a rule of thumb. just like the same street, you can use miles away, you go back and away as far as you have to in order to get the comps. often usually what happens is the lender requires 1-3 more comps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 01:11 PM
 
Location: OK
2,717 posts, read 6,290,623 times
Reputation: 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerdave View Post
they don't have to be 3 months, that's just a rule of thumb. just like the same street, you can use miles away, you go back and away as far as you have to in order to get the comps. often usually what happens is the lender requires 1-3 more comps.
I have NEVER had to issue more comps ...... but then I write a "book" and have support for using the comparables I do.

Of course, I am not in a declining market.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-15-2008, 01:32 PM
 
Location: central, between Pepe's Tacos and Roberto's
2,086 posts, read 6,097,275 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schousse View Post
If the majority of the sales in the area are REO and/or distress sales, then that is what your market is.
Thanks. That's what I figured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schousse View Post
I can't blame the lenders .... they want to make sure they won't be lending on a property that has already declined in value by the time the file goes to closing. I don't envy you being in that market.
It is a tough market and I can certainly understand the lender's caution as well. What can we do but keep moving forward and doing the best we can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerdave View Post
they don't have to be 3 months, that's just a rule of thumb. just like the same street, you can use miles away, you go back and away as far as you have to in order to get the comps. often usually what happens is the lender requires 1-3 more comps.
I think you may be misunderstanding me. I am not speaking in generalities. I am speaking specifically about Vegas. I am sure that other declining markets are seeing the same lender requirements for appraisals. The 3 months guideline has been instituted by lenders such as Countrywide (who I never use but they still email me info and updates) and Taylor Bean and Whitaker, for example. I am in a declining market and as such a comp that is 6 or 9 months old is not a comp. Read the quotes from Schousse. Distressed sales ARE the market out here. I don't presume to know the market forces at work in Ft. Myers, and unless you have specific knowledge about the Vegas market I believe that this debate is over. I will not argue for the sake of argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-16-2008, 07:49 AM
 
25,334 posts, read 37,471,570 times
Reputation: 13249
The market here in the new tampa area is all based on short sales and foreclosed properties....and a few new construction which are sold for a very low price. For the rest nothing is moving unless they ask what they paid for in 2004-2005 and they will lose money too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-16-2008, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Fort Myers, FL
1,286 posts, read 2,594,674 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schousse View Post
I have NEVER had to issue more comps ...... but then I write a "book" and have support for using the comparables I do.

Of course, I am not in a declining market.
i am not referring to a declining market. a lot of states have mountains, hills, lakes, rivers, and other obstructions. i have nationwide experience. it is very common to have comps that are 10 miles away, 2-3 years out. some areas are very highly sought after and rarely show sales.

the declining market is using these style comps more and more thought like you mentioned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-16-2008, 03:39 PM
 
Location: OK
2,717 posts, read 6,290,623 times
Reputation: 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokerdave View Post
i am not referring to a declining market. a lot of states have mountains, hills, lakes, rivers, and other obstructions. i have nationwide experience. it is very common to have comps that are 10 miles away, 2-3 years out. some areas are very highly sought after and rarely show sales.

the declining market is using these style comps more and more thought like you mentioned.
Once again .... frequently our comps are among 3 states and we rarely if ever get requests for additional comps. If the report is well supported ther eis no need for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-17-2008, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,111,845 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Yesterday I spend some time looking into a few mortgages on homes I'm interested in and which are listed as short sales.

What i found out is such a mess and even more shocking than what I previous knew about the mortgage mess.

One had a divorce, IRS lien, County Clerk Lien, Hoa Lien, 2 Mortgage lenders, and this person owed 100% more than he paid for the house and the house is worth less than what he paid for it....even with the listing price which is almost half of what this person owes, IMO the lender will neveragree on a price like this, since you have to add the 18% on top of most liens, etc....

The second had only one mortgage, after refi, for the 3rd time while this person started with a "normal mortgage" and now eneded up with a mortgage that is also twice as high as what he paid for the house.

The 3rd, was also refi for the 3rd time and this last time in 2007 when the market was down, refi by Countrywide for double than what he paid to the builder and in 2007 the market value was still more than what this person paid in 1005, but so much lower than what Countryiwde gave them....!!! Unbelievable.

The next 2, I looked at was just similar but the last one already had notice of foreclosure so soon to be bankowned.



I wonder how any of these nice listed sales prices will ever be able to get a deal done other than foreclosing and sold as bankowned, specially since the market value is higher than what they are asking. I assume that these different realtors just see this as advertisement and try to get customers through the door and have their deposit in an account for a long time.

If I'm worng, I'm glad to hear another view on this, but to me the lenders who refi these people in 2007 are just as responsible for the mess, because at that time every one knew what was going on and how can Countrywide have given this exceptinal high loan for a property that wasn't worth it.....is it a bad appraiser, but even if it was...Countrywide should have know in that time frame there was something wrong!
Well.. in short sales there is usually an appraisal done by the bank when the house goes on the market. and they are VERY conservative. I really do believe mine underappraised my short sale...but that's okay..no matter what they appraised it at it would still be less than I owe (not becuase i have a ton of mortgages and refi's..simply market decline ate my down payment and then some!).

Once I put it on the market and adjusted the price to slightly above the appraised value.. well.. I ended up with three offers and the hosue went for FULL APPRAISED value (basically full market value). The bank would have accepted 90% of their appraised value.

I did have a fed lien. not proud of it..we just used all our money on our hosue..poor planning and ended up short on our income taxes.. We figured we'd get past the house repairs etc..then tackle the tax issue..but as it turned out we cuoldn't refi (not because of th tax issue.. that came after..right about the time we were starting foreclosure process).

Now . I got 3 buyers at full price but had the lien and the bank was balking. I basically told them I have nothing to loose. Even with the lien they were getting well over their acceptable minimum and that if they foreclosed they were being stupid!! REally stupid because here I was getting themnot 1 but 3 buyers full price (actually a third went 5K over the full apraised value and was putting more down to compensate.. he watnd it that bad but he really came in too late in the game because other two offers were already submitted to the investors).

Long story short.. I didn'th ave time to get rid of the lien befor I would loose these buyers and the bank realized that they are getting al ot more than if they would foreclose.. .

Bottom line.. market value is what it is. Regardless of what is owed (100% of asking price) on the home the bank will take what offer is inline with what the market is even if the homeowner owes double. Unless the bank wants to own, maintain the home until the market recovers..but I seriously doubt that!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate > Mortgages
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top