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Old 09-16-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 3,334,722 times
Reputation: 592

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
Even if the landlord has "Brains", they would have to price their product competitively with the market. If all of a sudden there was a glut of housing... more than likely the landlord would have to reduce the price (even bellow costs if necessary).
I know what your point was and mine is that what you're talking about is a fairly rare event. In the vast majority of cases renters are indirectly paying property tax via their landlord, so this idea that renters aren't paying their fair share in taxes is pretty odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
Fairly similar... a personal residence is someone who is selling shelter to themselves with zero profit or break even. What's really the difference between a landlord and a personal residence? if your ok with a landlord deducting interest? The personal residence and the landlord both pay the same taxes/fees and incur the same amount of risk.
Should I be able to buy clothing wholesale sell it to myself and deduct the wholesale cost on my taxes like a business can? A home owner isn't selling anything to themselves, if they truly wanted to do that they could set up a real estate company and rent to themselves.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:02 AM
 
472 posts, read 772,852 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
There are reasons for renters to be renters, but they shouldn't have to subsidize homeowners. The government shouldn't favor one group over another using tax policy.

Hmmmmmmm ... as a life long renter and a recent first time homeowner I'll accept that. However does that mean that renters will be obligated to pay local school and municipal taxes? After all, homeowners are subsidizing public education and municipal services through the taxes they pay.
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Old 09-17-2008, 10:27 AM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,246,246 times
Reputation: 17979
Then why not directly tax renters on the property they live in regardless of who pays the rent;like government.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:00 AM
 
3,567 posts, read 7,529,466 times
Reputation: 2855
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
There are reasons for renters to be renters, but they shouldn't have to subsidize homeowners. The government shouldn't favor one group over another using tax policy.
Renters do not subsidize homeowners.

Do you seriously believe that the government pays back tax income to homeowners? It doesn't. That's not how tax deductions work.

Homeowners directly subsidize the existence of renters. Property taxes pay for everything in our world. Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.
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Old 09-17-2008, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,759 posts, read 47,624,761 times
Reputation: 17641
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Renters do not subsidize homeowners.

Do you seriously believe that the government pays back tax income to homeowners? It doesn't. That's not how tax deductions work.

Homeowners directly subsidize the existence of renters. Property taxes pay for everything in our world. Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.

Well said, good post
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:26 PM
 
516 posts, read 1,690,242 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.
Ok, so: I own a home. I pay a mortgage payment of $1000/month. I also pay property taxes that pay for various city services, which comes to $100/month. So, when I rent this home out, how much do I charge? You really think I'm not going to recoup the taxes?

The renter pays. It's just factored into the rent.

BTW, "mail service" is provided by the USPS, which is a federal agency - not supported by property taxes. And Trash collection is usually a billed service. It may be included in your rent, but I can guarantee you that the landlord isn't paying for it - he's adding it into your rent.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:46 PM
 
472 posts, read 772,852 times
Reputation: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony23 View Post
Ok, so: I own a home. I pay a mortgage payment of $1000/month. I also pay property taxes that pay for various city services, which comes to $100/month. So, when I rent this home out, how much do I charge? You really think I'm not going to recoup the taxes?

The renter pays. It's just factored into the rent.

BTW, "mail service" is provided by the USPS, which is a federal agency - not supported by property taxes. And Trash collection is usually a billed service. It may be included in your rent, but I can guarantee you that the landlord isn't paying for it - he's adding it into your rent.
Semantics...

Well regardless, as a landlord if you recoup the taxes... you're still adding that rental income to your own. As a landlord your income increases and YOU endup paying more in your own taxes. You might have MI as a writeoff, however the landlord is still paying higher taxes based on higher income.

And garbage collection, water, police, fire, are usually in your village, town and county taxes. Regardless if they are included in the rent, they are billed to the landlord NOT the tennant.

Lastly 2/3rds of Americans are homeowners... yet a much smaller percentage are landlords. If you have issues with landlords deducting for MI take it up with them.
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Old 09-17-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,759 posts, read 47,624,761 times
Reputation: 17641
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnymonty View Post
Semantics...

Well regardless, as a landlord if you recoup the taxes... you're still adding that rental income to your own. As a landlord your income increases and YOU endup paying more in your own taxes. You might have MI as a writeoff, however the landlord is still paying higher taxes based on higher income. ...
I am a landlord.

Apartment buildings are a big tax write-off. They provide sheltering from income taxes.

If anyone has rentals and the rental income is increasing their taxable income; they need a better accountant.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:16 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,668,621 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
Renters do not subsidize homeowners.

Do you seriously believe that the government pays back tax income to homeowners? It doesn't. That's not how tax deductions work.

Homeowners directly subsidize the existence of renters. Property taxes pay for everything in our world. Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.
I happen to own an office building that we rent out to doctors (including space that we use for our own practice). I can assure you that we pass on property taxes to our renters. They pay for it. I like it. This year we raised our rent by 6.8%, which covers property taxes. The renters pay for it without grumbling (at least not openly).

As someone else said, garbage collection and mail service are not paid for by property taxes. Local public hospitals generate their own income from the services they provide and don't depend on property taxes. They sometimes issue bonds when they need money to finance a project or two.

Let's face it: the mortgage interest tax deduction is an entitlement created by tax policy to influence people's behavior. You can argue the merits of the behavior it is trying to influence, but it doesn't change that fact that it is an entitlement.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:21 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,686,125 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Renters do not subsidize homeowners.

Do you seriously believe that the government pays back tax income to homeowners? It doesn't. That's not how tax deductions work.

Homeowners directly subsidize the existence of renters. Property taxes pay for everything in our world. Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.
This, quite frankly, is BS.

I am a renter, and my water bill includes a line item for trash collection.

I pay for postage stamps whenever I use the mail service. Your property taxes do none of that.

As I renter, part of my rent goes to property taxes, so yes, I am funding education.

The list goes on and on. There is absolutely no reason for the federal government to give money to homeowners at my expense. Encouraging home ownership is NOT the purpose of the tax code or government in general. That goes for any other behavior under the sun. Period.
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