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Old 09-17-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,833 posts, read 47,793,336 times
Reputation: 17746

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
...
Let's face it: the mortgage interest tax deduction is an entitlement created by tax policy to influence people's behavior. You can argue the merits of the behavior it is trying to influence, but it doesn't change that fact that it is an entitlement.
That is what I was taught in college.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,833 posts, read 47,793,336 times
Reputation: 17746
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
...
The list goes on and on. There is absolutely no reason for the federal government to give money to homeowners at my expense. Encouraging home ownership is NOT the purpose of the tax code or government in general. That goes for any other behavior under the sun. Period.
What about making pot illegal.

Our government wanted to influence behavior, and used the dirty word: "Communism" to move it through congress.

The government has spent Billions trying to find one health risk to justify making it illegal.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,962 posts, read 24,194,211 times
Reputation: 10827
[quote=ndfmnlf;5263710]The other benefit to repealing the subsidy is that it will enable the government to cut income taxes. Why? Because the subsidy (which is a loss to the government amounting to close to $100 billion annually) will now be eliminated, so the government doesn't have to offset that loss by imposing high income taxes.

The mortgage deduction is an entitlement no different from social security, medicare, medicaid, etc., but an entitlement given to the middle and upper class.[/QUOTE]

and the Earned Income Credit is an entitlement to the lower middle & poor class
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:29 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,682,464 times
Reputation: 1719
When I was in college, med school, and post-grad training, I was a renter. Now I'm a homeowner. So I've experienced being on both sides of this issue. There's no doubt in my mind that the mortgage interest tax deduction benefits homeowners at the expense of renters.
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Old 09-17-2008, 01:32 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,696,313 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
What about making pot illegal.

Our government wanted to influence behavior, and used the dirty word: "Communism" to move it through congress.

The government has spent Billions trying to find one health risk to justify making it illegal.
Not really relevant to the tax code, but I do agree that criminalization of drugs and the war on drugs has been one of the most phenomenal wastes in America's history.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,833 posts, read 47,793,336 times
Reputation: 17746
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
Not really relevant to the tax code, but I do agree that criminalization of drugs and the war on drugs has been one of the most phenomenal wastes in America's history.

It is pertinent in the context of proving the point that the US government does do things to influence the population.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:20 PM
 
392 posts, read 1,404,991 times
Reputation: 134
Home ownership and property rights are vital to the success and growth of a market economy. The governments actions are meant to spur home ownership. Any renter who feels they are getting the short end of the stick can buy a house.

Someone always loses with any type of deduction. For example, College deductions encourage our society to improve its education and therefore make progress and compete globally... but one could argue that it is unfair to those people who choose not to go to college.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:31 PM
 
3,567 posts, read 7,546,831 times
Reputation: 2860
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony23 View Post
Ok, so: I own a home. I pay a mortgage payment of $1000/month. I also pay property taxes that pay for various city services, which comes to $100/month. So, when I rent this home out, how much do I charge? You really think I'm not going to recoup the taxes?

The renter pays. It's just factored into the rent.

BTW, "mail service" is provided by the USPS, which is a federal agency - not supported by property taxes. And Trash collection is usually a billed service. It may be included in your rent, but I can guarantee you that the landlord isn't paying for it - he's adding it into your rent.
At what point did I argue that rental rates do not absorb the cost of prorated property taxes?

At no point did I say that. Nothing you have written here proves a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
This, quite frankly, is BS.

I am a renter, and my water bill includes a line item for trash collection.

I pay for postage stamps whenever I use the mail service. Your property taxes do none of that.

As I renter, part of my rent goes to property taxes, so yes, I am funding education.

The list goes on and on. There is absolutely no reason for the federal government to give money to homeowners at my expense. Encouraging home ownership is NOT the purpose of the tax code or government in general. That goes for any other behavior under the sun. Period.
Congratulations, you've used "quite frankly".

Once again, and I can't believe I have to say this, tax deductions, either itemized or above the line, do not reflect money given to taxpayers. You haven't even proven that the building you rent in still has a mortgage. And, sad though it may be to have to tell you, but a bill doesn't represent proper cost allocation; it's basic organization of a charge.

The only thing you've revealed here is a lingering resentment at having to pay rent while others own. I'm not touching your sour grapes, and that's the only thing you've to speak on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndfmnlf View Post
When I was in college, med school, and post-grad training, I was a renter. Now I'm a homeowner. So I've experienced being on both sides of this issue. There's no doubt in my mind that the mortgage interest tax deduction benefits homeowners at the expense of renters.
When I was working for an accounting firm, doing my post undergrad for my Masters of Tax and later passing the bar and working as a tax attorney, I was also a renter.

Mortgage interest deductions do not benefit homeowners at the expense of renters. The overwhelming majority of renters rent in apartment complexes where there is no single-house "owner" to point at.

If you don't like inequality, tough ****. Life isn't fair. No one owes you anything.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:35 PM
 
392 posts, read 1,404,991 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post

If you don't like inequality, tough ****. Life isn't fair. No one owes you anything.
Nice... direct... to the point... I give you rep for that
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:53 PM
 
4,182 posts, read 5,682,464 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
If you don't like inequality, tough ****. Life isn't fair. No one owes you anything.
It's not a question of liking or disliking inequality. In a market economy, there will be winners and losers. The question here is whether the government should play favorites using tax policy to decide who the winners and losers should be.

BTW, you have not established any credible basis for your previous assertion that garbage collection, mail service, hospitals etc. are paid for by property taxes. You made this sweeping statement:

Quote:
Homeowners directly subsidize the existence of renters. Property taxes pay for everything in our world. Do you like garbage collection? Renters do, but they don't pay a dime for it. Mail service? Education? City beautification? Public spaces? Local hospitals?

Thank the homeowners, because they pay for all of it.
Show us where homeowners pay for "all of it".
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