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Old 09-16-2008, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,898,870 times
Reputation: 546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
its included in the rent genius
Seriously it isn't. It's included in the rent in the sense your paying for shelter (and shelter is MARKET PRICED - not whatever the owner has to pay to maintain cash flows).

Realistically, who's liable for all these taxes? The owner has to pay for them even if there isn't a renter... the owner has to pay for them even if the renter ditches the rent. So no, the renter isn't directly paying for the taxes... but they fully benefit off of the owner's property taxes (schools, roads, library, police, fire, public services, etc. etc.).

If the owner is renting out the place bellow the cost of ownership.. the owner Still has to pay the taxes. The renter actually is mooching off the owner in this case.

I don't really see why renters feel they should have so much entitlement. Really, renters pretty much take on ZERO risk in the game but complain about pennies on the dollar that owners pay in taxes. Maybe cities should charge renters for public service use.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 09-16-2008 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
1,860 posts, read 4,339,025 times
Reputation: 775
The better question is WILL the mortgage interest deduction be repealed. The answer is a resounding no, the only way it will ever be repealed is if the whole tax system is totally redone and we go to a fair-tax or sales tax type of system. That won't be anytime soon, if anything the tax code gets more and more complicated every year w/lobbyists trying to get their interests into the code for tax benefits. The mortgage interest deduction is the bedrock of 'itemized deductions' and you will have a hard time getting either party to ever consider repealing it (amazingly, both parties agree on something in encouraging people to own homes). Owning a home is part of the 'American Dream' and unless that changes, the deduction will always be there.

That said - don't buy a home just because of the deduction!! See some of the other posters comments on how it is somewhat deceiving in how much deduction you actually get on it (due to the standard deduction), and you are paying much, much more to the banks in interest than you are getting back on your taxes.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
1,860 posts, read 4,339,025 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
Seriously it isn't. It's included in the rent in the sense your paying for shelter (and shelter is MARKET PRICED - not whatever the owner has to pay to maintain cash flows).

Realistically, who's liable for all these taxes? The owner has to pay for them even if there isn't a renter... the owner has to pay for them even if the renter ditches the rent. So no, the renter isn't directly paying for the taxes... but they fully benefit off of the owner's property taxes (schools, roads, library, police, fire, public services, etc. etc.).

If the owner is renting out the place bellow the cost of ownership.. the owner Still has to pay the taxes. The renter actually is mooching off the owner in this case.

I don't really see why renters feel they should have so much entitlement. Really, renters pretty much take on ZERO risk in the game but complain about pennies on the dollar that owners pay in taxes. Maybe cities should charge renters for public service use.

-chuck22b
Agreed, great points chuck22b, people in SC gripe about vehicle & sales taxes, but I am all for them as they help keep our real estate taxes lower (they supplement them to pay for all the public/city services). The majority of renters and homeowners alike own a car, and everyone has to buy clothes, household items, etc., so this way everyone helps contribute to funding these services.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:22 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,687,590 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by foma View Post
I disagree. Both situations you have earned the money and it is the same difference to me having to save the money then writing a check versus seeing the amount taken out ever 2 weeks and seeing it on my paycheck stub.
Can you please explain what you're disagreeing with? I said that the difference is when the money is taken out of your paycheck, you never actually HAVE the money. I didn't say that you didn't EARN it, just that you never HAVE it. If you have to write a check ever 3 months, then you DO have the money, but you have to set aside enough to pay those taxes, so that you CAN write the check.

Withholding makes it easier for the government to tax the people. If everyone had to write a check for their taxes instead of having it withheld, you can bet there would be a lot more hollering about taxes.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:26 AM
 
516 posts, read 1,687,590 times
Reputation: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by f_m View Post
My statement was inaccurate (based on my recollection of something I read awhile back in a Robert G. Allen book). However, it is more like "The top 5 percent own more than half of all wealth."

Wealth and Income Inequality in the USA

This is a very basic statement, but seriously points out the "imbalance" in the distribution of not only wealth but power.
Wealth and property are not exactly the same thing.

And the "imbalance" you refer to has always existed, in every society, and always will.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,421,420 times
Reputation: 4967
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
dammit i literly read this thread and just wrote a check

LOL, I did too after I got off.

I didn't mail it 'till today. Hope I don't get a penalty.

(yes 3rd Qtr, for July, Aug, Sept and Sept isn't even finished yet)

Luckily my husband is done with the 1099 work and we'll no longer have to worry about this self employment quarterly payment baloney.
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:41 PM
 
Location: mass
2,905 posts, read 6,421,420 times
Reputation: 4967
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Wow

Paying income tax must really suck
Are you being sarcastic?
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Old 09-16-2008, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,018 posts, read 13,247,591 times
Reputation: 13828
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck22b View Post
Seriously it isn't. It's included in the rent in the sense your paying for shelter (and shelter is MARKET PRICED - not whatever the owner has to pay to maintain cash flows).

Realistically, who's liable for all these taxes? The owner has to pay for them even if there isn't a renter... the owner has to pay for them even if the renter ditches the rent. So no, the renter isn't directly paying for the taxes... but they fully benefit off of the owner's property taxes (schools, roads, library, police, fire, public services, etc. etc.).
Taxes are included in the market priced rent.

Areas that have higher property taxes typically offer more amenities, which increases the value of the rental property allowing for higher rents to be charged.

The tax deduction for mortgage interest should be eliminated post haste.

Eliminating the deduction will create two positive effects:

1) It will force people to into the habit of saving money; and

2) It will result in people making larger down-payments which reduces the amount of interest they have to pay, and that will totally offset the mortgage interest they're paying.

If you stop and think for just one second, without the mortgage deduction, there wouldn't be a housing "crisis" right now.
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,727 posts, read 47,507,271 times
Reputation: 17577
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommytotwo View Post
Are you being sarcastic?
No. Not at all.

I know folks who pay income taxes, and it seems like a fairly high percentage of their paychecks to lose instantly from every paycheck.

I used to pay income taxes like the 60% of the nation who does. But in the early 1980s I was working in a career field where we were all strongly encouraged to learn to itemize our taxes.

I began taking courses taught by the IRS, and I became certified as a tax assistant.

I have been tax exempt since 1983.
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Old 09-16-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Chino, CA
1,458 posts, read 2,898,870 times
Reputation: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Taxes are included in the market priced rent.

Areas that have higher property taxes typically offer more amenities, which increases the value of the rental property allowing for higher rents to be charged.
Like I said, there isn't a "direct" connection between rent and property taxes. Yes, rents can include property taxes... but it can very well not for those areas that have a glut of homes/units for rent. Your assuming prices are based on Costs... but in a free market with numerous competitors... prices are dictated by the market (supply and demand). Can an owner charge more to an incoming renter if they loose out from months of vacancy? Nope. Market determines the price of the unit. The renter isn't going to be paying for back taxes are they?

Therefore, No, the renter isn't really paying property taxes.... the renter is paying for Shelter... and that's it. The owner is responsible for everything else that is required (cost of doing business) to provide that shelter (product) to sell. Renting a house/apartment etc. IS running a business. Business owners get a deduction on interest as well. Mainly because the government sees it as an economic benefit. Promotes jobs and growth.

Likewise, renting out a house/apartment unit is also a business selling Shelter. Whether or not it's profitable will depend on supply and demand not how much property taxes are or the other costs of doing business.

Renter's constant pursuit in getting rid of the interest tax deduction is like me going to BestBuy and saying I should get a deduction for buying a laptop (since they get a tax deduction on expenses and interest).

Quote:
Eliminating the deduction will create two positive effects:

1) It will force people to into the habit of saving money; and
Where is the connection? Europe doesn't have a deduction... and their savings rate isn't much higher than ours.
Quote:
2) It will result in people making larger down-payments which reduces the amount of interest they have to pay, and that will totally offset the mortgage interest they're paying.
Still unrelated.
Quote:
If you stop and think for just one second, without the mortgage deduction, there wouldn't be a housing "crisis" right now.
That's silly, the mortgage interest deduction has been around since the beginning when all interests were allowed to be deducted. It's definitely not the cause of the current crisis.

-chuck22b

Last edited by chuck22b; 09-16-2008 at 01:36 PM..
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