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Old 03-02-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,174,721 times
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Forgive me, but does this mean that housing has now taken a back seat? The administration is focusing on health care reform to help stimulate the economy. Has housing been shoved to the back burner? I guess my question should be can housing even be helped at this point?
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Old 03-02-2009, 02:44 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 4,092,588 times
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Probably not. Health care reform became less pressing when things started to fall apart last year. In reality health care has been in a financial crisis for years with only bandaid [pardon the pun] solutions. First the Iraq war and then the general economic crisis took over the previous headline grabbing looming failure of Medicare and rising "medical bankruptcies." Healthcare is just another of the wonderful problems Obama has inherited from the last several administrations.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:22 PM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,605,082 times
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We have a multi-tasker at the helm.

Bad economy: passed stimulus bill. Check.

Housing crisis: revealed housing plan. Check.

Iraq war: set withdrawal window. Check.

To-do for Tuesday: health care reform.

Biggest win to date: keeping Blackberry.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
426 posts, read 1,298,648 times
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Would you prefer that he try to take this one thing at a time? Is there anything you won't criticize him for?

Healthcare has long been a disgrace on this country. I'm glad we now have the leadership to do something about it.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:10 PM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,605,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbanawan View Post
Would you prefer that he try to take this one thing at a time? Is there anything you won't criticize him for?

Healthcare has long been a disgrace on this country. I'm glad we now have the leadership to do something about it.
Hey, I gave him credit for winning the Blackberry argument. It was important to him, he fought hard and he won.

I'll be happy to praise him when he does something praiseworthy. So far, I view his presidency as a complete failure. Read the Wall Street Journal, the NYT et al and you'll see that many agree with me. Many others agree with you. We are a country divided.

Yes, healthcare is a disgrace in this country. So is social security. To fix them will cost vast sums of money-- money that we, as a country, don't have and have no viable means of procuring. How do you propose that we pay for his sweeping healthcare reforms, in light of the trillions in other reforming he's already doing?

Being a leader means actually paying for the programs you propose. And, no, printing more money on the government presses or putting us further in hock with China doesn't count. Saddling future generations with crushing debt will not only reduce their options, it will make us vulnerable as a country. I don't find those reasons to gloat.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Durham, NC
426 posts, read 1,298,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
Hey, I gave him credit for winning the Blackberry argument. It was important to him, he fought hard and he won.

I'll be happy to praise him when he does something praiseworthy. So far, I view his presidency as a complete failure. Read the Wall Street Journal, the NYT et al and you'll see that many agree with me. Many others agree with you. We are a country divided.

Yes, healthcare is a disgrace in this country. So is social security. To fix them will cost vast sums of money-- money that we, as a country, don't have and have no viable means of procuring. How do you propose that we pay for his sweeping healthcare reforms, in light of the trillions in other reforming he's already doing?

Being a leader means actually paying for the programs you propose. And, no, printing more money on the government presses or putting us further in hock with China doesn't count. Saddling future generations with crushing debt will not only reduce their options, it will make us vulnerable as a country. I don't find those reasons to gloat.
I guess we have different definitions of a leader. To me, being a leader involves being willing to lead on areas that are hard to lead on. When we don't see an easy way forward, the leader helps us get there. Would it be nice to have a balanced budget while doing this? Sure, but since that's not going to happen for a while and the pox on our country isn't going anywhere without a big change, why not do it now.

Now as for his presidency being an "complete failure", I'm not sure how on earth you can come to that conclusion in less than 2 months. Even I gave George Bush longer than that!
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:52 AM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,605,082 times
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I didn't say balanced budget. I realize that spending is called for, but I think spending as aggressively as he has in questionable ways will unduly burden America for generations to come.

I don't think his plan will work. It hasn't shown the earliest sign of working. The Obama administration has promised that we'll see results by April 1. So, while I think he has failed to put America on the right path, in less than a month I may well be proved wrong. And we would both be happy about that.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
426 posts, read 1,298,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyehollywood View Post
I didn't say balanced budget. I realize that spending is called for, but I think spending as aggressively as he has in questionable ways will unduly burden America for generations to come.

I don't think his plan will work. It hasn't shown the earliest sign of working. The Obama administration has promised that we'll see results by April 1. So, while I think he has failed to put America on the right path, in less than a month I may well be proved wrong. And we would both be happy about that.
Agreed.

Most of the country has a very positive view of Obama and they trust him for putting us on the right path.

That said, I've asked repeatedly for numbers that back up your assertions that his plan won't work but I haven't seen a lick of evidence other than your adamant insistence that it won't. There are absolutely no guarantees that his plan will work (and if it doesn't it's because it wasn't big enough and too much was wasted on tax cuts) but at least there's a fighting chance.

We'll see how things pan out in a few months. I personally think that we're in for a long, hard slog and we won't see a quick rebound no matter what policies are put in place. Many economists are calling for an L shaped recession as opposed to the V shaped downturn predicted a few months ago. I hope they're wrong but I'm prepared for them to be right.
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Old 03-03-2009, 10:19 AM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,605,082 times
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Fact: Obama’s solution to funding his vastly expensive agenda is to end the "tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans."

Fact: Federal income taxes are already progressive. If Obama raised the 35% top marginal rate to 39.6% PLUS gleaned another two percentage points in deduction phase-outs PLUS raised capital gains and dividend rates, all these increases combined won't even come close to generating enough revenue to fund the programs Obama has proposed THUS FAR.

Okay, so taxing the “wealthy” won’t be enough; let’s just seize ALL their income and use it to fund Obama’s Big Plan. Wait—even that won’t be enough!

Fact: Confiscating 100% of the taxable income of every single American earning more than $500,000 in 2006 (the last year IRS has published data) would yield an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue—slightly less than one-half of the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion. Obama has upped spending to more than $4 TRILLION in 2010. So completely robbing the “wealthy” only gives him one-third of the revenue he needs to fund his Big Plan. The government would have to seize every single taxable dime of every American earning more than $75,000 in 2006 to cover that $4 trillion.

But wait—that’s the middle class!

And 2006 was a boom year; 2010 will be recessionary. Obama would have to take more than a dime, maybe much more if the recession is really deep and nasty.

But wait—that doesn’t even include debt service. Servicing this massive debt will dig us in deeper every year, making it harder and harder to ever pay it off.

But wait—what about small business owners?

Fact: Small- and medium-sized businesses are the backbone of the American job market. Many of them now file as LLCs or S corps to remain profitable. Merely restoring the Clinton tax rates on the top two tax brackets could negatively impact as much as 55% of small business income. They will find other ways to reduce their taxable income, and if Obama’s plans become too burdensome, they will offshore jobs, cut healthcare and eliminate or reduce employee benefits and pension plans. They may even go out of business, putting more middle class Americans on unemployment.

Scariest Fact of All: Obama isn't finished. He has just begun his agenda, and healthcare and social security are the most expensive of all. He has promised more economic stimulus. He has just started a four-year term and he has put Americans on the hook for $4 trillion-- five weeks in!

$4 TRILLION with no way to pay for it.

$4 TRILLION for programs that many economists don't believe will work. $4 TRILLION for programs that Obama isn't even sure will work.

Obama says: American households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime."

The Reality: The middle class will have to pay and pay for many years—and many generations—to come. There is no other way.

So, there you go. Facts are facts and spin is spin. But the sheeple follow blindly, believing the promises and ignoring the facts.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
426 posts, read 1,298,648 times
Reputation: 176
Wow, goodbyehollywood, you can copy and paste! You realize that the WSJ is incredibly partisan, right?

I'll address of your more absurd claims like the small business problem in a future post. Suffice it to say, you suckle from some very bitter teats.

Did you bother to source the numbers from the WSJ article or are you just taking a secondary source for its word? (and not citing it - quite intellectually dishonest of you. Good thing teh google has a librul bias!)
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