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I wouldn't be caught on a 125cc chinese made wannabe Harley, thats just lame.
Scooters were never meant to be motorcycles for touring cross country on the freeways, they were designed for short trips in the city, the biggest problem is these teens who think they can get a scooter cheap, no license etc and make it go 70 mph, I see them posting on the scooter forums all over the place about how they bought a 49 cc scooter and they want to make it go faster, hit mountain grades faster and have more takeoff speed- all that they want out of an engine with a piston the size of an egg LOL
I don't know about anyone else but I sure wouldn't want to drive one 55 or 60 mph with those small 10" wheels on it!
The next thing I see them doing is spending $300 on a 100 or 150 cc "big bore kit" to replace the top of the engine, then we read about how they can't get it started, or the new piston hit the valves and bent them, or how if they got it started it seized up- then they learn that when you increase bore size you have to change the CARBURETOR and the jets, and the air intake and filter size and the exhaust since all of those things are sized for a 49 cc engine!
I tell these people if you want to drive 55-70 mph get a MOTORCYCLE, don't buy a $750 scooter designed to go 30-35 mph max and waste time and money replacing half the engine and the exhaust to get 100-150 cc on a bike designed for 49 cc and manufatured and licensed to legally go only 30-35 mph w/o a license!
I tell them if if their state law says over 30 mph they have to get a MC license and register the scooter AS a motorcycle and they soup their 49 cc to go 45-55 the first time they get stopped they will be really pissed off!
I'd stay away from the chineese scooters. They die inside of 2 years.
Not if you do the initial go-over on them which includes rejetting the carb as they ALL come from CHina jetted too lean to run well in the USA's climate, AND you maintain them properly and keep the oil changed, my TaoTao 50 is over 2 years old, 3,500 on the odometer now, I use it every day to-from work even here in Iowa when there was snow on the ground and it was near zero- it still started up and ran fine.
It still has the original bulbs and battery even, only thing that I've had to fix was the speedometer cable last week.
Jetting the carb is the biggest one, if you dont do it and most don't- on a hot summer day you can melt a hole in the piston in these air cooled engines because it's running too LEAN. There's a lot of scooters around with broken and cracked pistons from exactly that cause.
You also want to replace the cheap Torch spark plug they ship with- with a better one.
You also can't use that cheap ethanol blend gas in these scooters you must use premium high octane gas in these high compression engines or you WILL have problems.
You also need break the engine in properly and to keep the oil changed frequently- it's only half a quart- cheap enough to keep it changed.
Sure, you can get a Honda Metropolitan, they are fine scooters and I almost bought one, but they are also over $2,000, my TaoTao was $650 two years ago and that included freight, I could buy 3 TaoTaos for what one Metro costs and have change left over and the registration, tax etc is far cheaper on a $650 bike than a $2000 bike.
You might need to buy three TT'S to get enough parts to make a single good one. I would never buy a new one. I only buy Chinese junk if I cannot avoid it.
I now ride a 10 year old Suzuki Burgman 650 cc motorcycle disguised as a scooter. It just turned over 30,000 miles. This is just about the best bike I ever owned. I ride it about 3 to 4 thousand miles a summer and store it during the winter. Last year I wore out the sides of the tires. I will be replacing the seat and installing a custom suspension just for comfort. I do not expect to replace this bike.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW
You might need to buy three TT'S to get enough parts to make a single good one. I would never buy a new one. I only buy Chinese junk if I cannot avoid it.
I now ride a 10 year old Suzuki Burgman 650 cc motorcycle disguised as a scooter. It just turned over 30,000 miles. This is just about the best bike I ever owned. I ride it about 3 to 4 thousand miles a summer and store it during the winter. Last year I wore out the sides of the tires. I will be replacing the seat and installing a custom suspension just for comfort. I do not expect to replace this bike.
When the Burgman first hit the market I had two friends who each owned a dozen or more motorcycles including some pretty exotic stuff buy Burgmans, I have to admit I was a bit surprised at their enthusiasm for the Burgman and that they both said if they were going coast to coast they'd take the Burgman. Do they lack in any area for brisk street riding or is it really the perfect vehicle for those who don't need a bike that looks like a recent MotoGP entry?
My major problem with my Burgman is the seat is ten years old and all the cushioning has gone away. Riding many of the frost heaved back roads in NH is literally a PIA. I am a heavy guy and setting the suspension at full preload makes matters worse. So I am getting the seat rebuilt and installing a new suspension. Seat this year and suspension over the winter to spread out the costs. I added a taller windshield when I bought the bike.
This thing is amazing on a back road. It will take a 25 mph corner at 45 to 50. It will cruise an expressway at 70+ all day with one or two riders. Having the rear disk brake controlled by a lever on the left handlebar lets me trail brake to and apex with good control or, using both brakes, stop very (as in look in the rear view to avoid getting run over) quickly and controllably.
I may buy a conventional (aka Triumph Bonneville) bike just to have a "regular" bike without any windshield or other farkles around to ride around here. Long trips will be done on the "Scooter".
If you view them as disposable, you won't be disappointed. For my money, I'd buy something decent used over new and disposable.
I have a sym it is made in Taiwan. Nice scooter it's a hd200. It's water cooled. Ceramic coated cylinder no kick start at all. Has 16 in tires, go's 70 mph. It's a 2012 cost $3,800 check them out.
You might need to buy three TT'S to get enough parts to make a single good one. I would never buy a new one. I only buy Chinese junk if I cannot avoid it.
Like I said, I've had MY TaoTao for over 2 years and 4 months now, it's a daily commuter and errands rider here, I even rode it all winter when it was well below freezing save for a few really bad weather days.
I've NEVER had a time it would not start, it has NEVER let me down. now approaching 4,000 on the odometer, I don't know what else to tell you other than it all boils down to two things;
1) Did the owner DO the post delivery inspection, tighten all nuts and bolts and change out the rubber hoses and rejet carburetor properly, replace the factory oil and gear oil, and did they adjust the valve gap at 1,000 km? Did they always use PREMIUM gas?
2) Did the owner ride it like a scooter or did they hotrod it like they were riding a DIRT BIKE on a trail?
These are not motorcycles nor are they trail riding dirt bikes!
99% of the problems seen with scooters are an owner caused problem, you get the kind who has no clue how the thing even works and no desire to even bother to learn, all they want to do is dump cheap gas in and go, then a short time later they complain about how they melted the piston (running it TOO LEAN) or they can't get it started (they never bothered to adjust the critical valve gap or replaced the cheap "torch" brand plug)
They never bother to check the drive belt at all and when the belt breaks and either leaves them stranded or wrecks the clutch they blame the "cheap scooter" when it was their own failure to do basic preventative maintenance!
Then you get the other kind of owner who buys a 50 cc scooter that has a max speed of 30 or 35 mph and they want to go faster and more power, so they go and spend $300 on a 100cc or 125cc big bore kit, tear half the engine apart and replace it with these new parts that increase pressure and wear on the rest of the engine that was designed only for a 50cc piston, and then they have all kinds of problems, from failure to start and up to and including a blown engine, then they blame that on the "cheap Chinese" scooter!
The engines used in all of these 50 cc scooters are the same Honda clone that has been produced by the millions for many years- the GY6/139QMB, they are produced in Taiwan, China and elsewhere and installed in scooters built by TaoTao, Kymko and numerous other well known brands, this is very similar to how almost no matter what brand lawn mower or portable generator you buy it's almost always going to have either a Briggs engine in it or a Tecumseh engine- they buy the engines and install them in their products, the same as the scooter companies buy the GY6/139QMB engines and install them in their products.
Almost EVERYTHING is made in China these days just read the labels, the USA has lost it's heavy machinery industry, we have become little more than sales distributors now, John Deere tractors and all the rest are made overseas.
My TaoTao has hauled not only me but I've even used it to haul two 50#bags of plaster, and concrete at a time. I can haul 3 bags of groceries on it which is what I normally buy anyway, I use the scooter the way it was designed for- short local trips, not 1500 mile cross-country tours, drag racing or dirt biking on mountain trails.
It still has the starting original battery, I just replaced the headlight bulb last week- a whopping $4.95 there.
Quote:
I now ride a 10 year old Suzuki Burgman 650 cc motorcycle disguised as a scooter. It just turned over 30,000 miles. This is just about the best bike I ever owned. I ride it about 3 to 4 thousand miles a summer and store it during the winter. Last year I wore out the sides of the tires. I will be replacing the seat and installing a custom suspension just for comfort. I do not expect to replace this bike.
That's great, but many people, myself included do not NEED or even want a 650 cc motorcyle, it's far too big, too heavy, needing a MC license and insurance- useless for people like myself who live less than 1/2 mile from work, the supermarket and stores. That's not to say I never ride it longer, I've ridden it to towns 20 miles away a few times on real nice days when I felt like opening it up and riding somewhere far.
According to a little checking:
2013 Suzuki Burgman 650 ABS ($10,999)
Let's NOT try to compare a $10,000 machine with a $650 one, there's where your whole problem is, what you are doing is like comparing a base model yugo to a Lamborgini or porche. Of COURSE your Bergman is great and you are happy with it- I bet even 10 year old used you paid a hell of a lot more than $650 for it too.
A retired person who lives in town doesn't need a porche to drive 5 blocks to the grocery store, the same way I don't need a Bergman 650 cc to ride 1/2 mile to work and back, see what I mean? It all depends on what your NEEDS are, obviously yours differ greatly from mine, which is why I opted for a $650 scooter not a $4,000 used motorcycle.
I'm out riding my scooter when it's down near zero degrees F and snowing, while you appear to store your MC away in the winter, would I ride a scooter 10 or 20 miles to work every day? no I would not, a scooter is not designed for that and no one I know ever claimed they were, you go look in Taiwan- Taipei city etc and the like you'll see a significant percentage of people in the city ride either scooters or motorcycles, there's scooter shops everywhere, every store and restaurant seems to have scooters parked out front.
Those people are using their scooters as they were designed for- short local trips and errands, they are PERFECT for that kind of use and speed in the city
A little history about the common scooter engine used in almost all of these scooters regardless of brands:
The GY6 engine has a built in swing arm with automatic CVT transmission that is belt driven.
This engine was originally manufactured in 50cc, 125cc, and 150cc engine sizes and was found in the Honda Elite and Spacey line of motor scooters.
With the wide availability of this engine in both older Honda products and newer Asian imports, there is a vast amount of information, modifications, and performance parts available such as 4 valved high compression heads with high-lift camshafts, big bore kits, high performance CVTs and Clutches, performance CDIs, performance Carburetors, and performance Exhaust sytems.
Honda no longer uses this design on their scooters, but Chinese, Korean, and Taiwanese copies of this engine are readily available. Current brands of import scooter lines that use the Honda GY6 cloned engine technology include: Geely, Jinlun, Ricardo Motors, Tank, TaoTao, Strada, Vento, Yamati, SUNL, and Roketa among others.
The 139QMB variation of the GY6 engine is available in version with 4-valve cylinder head, which has maximum output of 2.6 kW (3.62 hp) at 7500rpm. The GY6 engine family is produced by a wide range of manufacturers throughout Asia, and as such there may be many small differences between engines from different firms.
Honda entered into a business relationship with Lifan China to manufacture the engine. It
seems that Lifan, once having their hands on the design and tooling didn't hesitate to profit from it as much as they could. Lifan and Honda have been in legal battles for years over various issues.
There are now over 20 companies that make this type of engine in China and Taiwan. This engine is a proven work horse and is the only four stroke scooter engine of these sizes that is currently imported from China to the U.S. This engine is also popular for use with ATV's and
go-carts. The engine is manufactured in 50cc, 125cc, 150cc and 170cc with big bore kits available in several sizes. Some of the more note scooters using this engine or a variation of it are Vento, Strada, SYM TGB, United Motors and Kymco and Lifan.
Quote:
GY6 wasn't originally made by Honda but was made much better by Honda in the 60s.
It's pretty much always been said that it's a Honda engine.
So why would they design an engine with that configuration?
So today, when I passed a Suzuki AN125(also called a Bergman 125), I stopped and poked my head under the plastic.
Sure looked like a GY6 to me.
It's a real popular model here and around the world, just not sold in N.A.
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Like I said, I've had MY TaoTao for over 2 years and 4 months now, it's a daily commuter and errands rider here, I even rode it all winter when it was well below freezing save for a few really bad weather days.
I've NEVER had a time it would not start, it has NEVER let me down. now approaching 4,000 on the odometer, I don't know what else to tell you other than it all boils down to two things;
1) Did the owner DO the post delivery inspection, tighten all nuts and bolts and change out the rubber hoses and rejet carburetor properly, replace the factory oil and gear oil, and did they adjust the valve gap at 1,000 km? Did they always use PREMIUM gas?
2) Did the owner ride it like a scooter or did they hotrod it like they were riding a DIRT BIKE on a trail?
These are not motorcycles nor are they trail riding dirt bikes!
99% of the problems seen with scooters are an owner caused problem, you get the kind who has no clue how the thing even works and no desire to even bother to learn, all they want to do is dump cheap gas in and go, then a short time later they complain about how they melted the piston (running it TOO LEAN) or they can't get it started (they never bothered to adjust the critical valve gap or replaced the cheap "torch" brand plug)
They never bother to check the drive belt at all and when the belt breaks and either leaves them stranded or wrecks the clutch they blame the "cheap scooter" when it was their own failure to do basic preventative maintenance!
Few things I should note:
-The average joe will not expect to have to perform maintenance on a brand new scooter, Chinese or no.
-The moped shops people take them to will not make these adjustments or replacements.
-Using premium unleaded on a cheap scooter defeats the purpose.
-Most people ride by rolling the throttle to go forward, what other manner would they operate it unless you see someone actually riding on a dirt trail with one?
-The average consumer(thinking women here) isn't going to do ANY maintenance other than fill up the gas, maybe wipe down a bit, and change the oil(maybe not even that).
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