"Loud pipes save lifes" and helmets dont? (highway, road, traffic)

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

This:
The F Word (Season 13, Episode 12) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios

I ride a small adventure bike with a stock exhaust. I might upgrade to an FMF and programmer, as long as the noise level doesn't go up a bunch. For the most part, IMO most "loud pipes" guys are posers after attention. Many don't ride far enough or often enough to get their chrome dirty.

As to helmets, I ALWAYS wear one. I've wrecked enough on both bikes and quads to appreciate the value. A helmet has saved me from serious injury at least three times, with the dents and gouges to prove it. I also ride with an armored jacket and finally added a set of riding pants. ATGATT. Or at least MTGATT.

[Chemistry_Guy]

I generally keep the stock exhaust on my bikes because I often leave for rides very early and I don't want to annoy me neighbors. Also, I like to be able to hear emergency vehicles and such and I tend to feel that quieter pipes give me more awareness and thus more safety.

On the other hand after I wrecked my CBR a few years ago my exhaust was damaged and the bike was straight-pipe loud for a few weeks. I noticed that no one wanted to tailgate me in traffic during that period. Still, I hardly think that keeping people at a distance by annoying the hell out of them is a sound safety strategy.

As to helmets, I am alive and not disfigured because of one. Replacing my gouged helmet was the easiest $150 I ever spent. I've seen what skidding 20 feet on unprotected (denim only) flesh can do, and I would not want that happening to my face.

[Chemistry_Guy]

Originally Posted by catman

You're certainly right about that. If a rider must depend upon his loud pipes to save him, he probably won't last long. My first rule of riding in traffic is to assume that no one sees me, since I can't be sure which people do.

That is a good basic rule to follow. I was taught to take it a step further in some situations. When possible ride like other vehicles are actively trying to run you off the road. If you anticipate the most dangerous maneuvers that a car can do you won't be caught off guard when they do something stupid.

[Big George]

Originally Posted by jc76

It's a double standard. Bikers with loud obnoxious pipes claim its so they're better seen/heard. But if your not wearing a helmet isn't this a double standard? Not trying to stir up fights, just curious because in my theory it has much more to do with Getting attention than it does with safety. The only attention loud pipes gets from me is a chuckle, its funny grown men have to attract the attention of total strangers.

I have long-shots (yes, they're loud), but I also wear a helmet. Always.

I haven't been riding for over 30 years because of being stupid on the cycle.

[Pilgrim21784]

Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy

That is a good basic rule to follow. I was taught to take it a step further in some situations. When possible ride like other vehicles are actively trying to run you off the road. If you anticipate the most dangerous maneuvers that a car can do you won't be caught off guard when they do something stupid.

Couldn't rep you again so soon, absolutely agree with the post. I just assume everyone is out to kill me, makes riding much safer.

[Wayneb]

I know a helmet saved my life, I think a nice loud horn helps also.

[johnnytang24]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim21784

"johnnytang24: ...I was driving in my box van one night and some guy rode next to my rear wheel. I couldn't see his headlight in the side mirror, I couldn't see his headlight on the ground, and there are no rear side windows. I could hear him though. One could argue that he shouldn't be riding there but he was, and his pipes saved him."

I understand your logic - but your bolded quote above covers the issue quite well. The guy shouldn't have been riding there - IMO, its not subject to argument. He was riding improperly.

Doesn't matter if he was riding what you consider to be improper. The fact is: his loud pipes saved his life that night.

We'd all like to think that defensive riding is the end all, but at some point, we all have to rely on the gratuity of other vehicles. Whether it's stopped at a light, vehicles crossing our right of way, etc. some things can't be avoided simply by being aware. We have to attract the awareness of the other drivers as well. Why do emergency vehicles have sirens? Why would we limit ourselves to visual stimulus when we can use both visual and audio stimuli to get the awareness of other drivers?

[RMoore007]

If loud pipes saves lives, why do people still get hit by trains then?

Just the other day, a lady in a van pulled out in front of me crossing traffic to get to my side of the road and she immediately came over to the number two lane that I was in forcing me to move off the road into the bicycle lane. I only had time to rev it and get out in front of her as quickly as I could. I looked in my rear view mirror and saw that she had stopped briefly on the side of the road and then immediately got back in traffic going very slow as to not catch up with me. I think it freaked her out more than me. I guess I just expected her to get in front of me in my lane as I think all cagers are idiots. And when they don't pull out in front of me it's a bonus.

In CA, we can split traffic between the number one and number two lanes. I ride a quiet BMW and when I split, I don't think most people even see me until I'm just passing them and it can freak them out a bit as it does me when I'm in a cage. But, I can hear a loud bike coming up on me in traffic and it gives me time to pull over a bit to let them through. So if that is an endorsement for loud pipes, I'm sorry I guess.

As far as helmets, in CA where it is mandatory, I wear a full face helmet. When in Maine where there is no helmet law, I still wear a full face helmet. But I see many riders who ride without helmets. It's not as much of a safety issue to them as much as a freedom issue. Those darn liberty lovers.

[stan4]

It's obnoxious and offensive...and how does it save lives when everyone who is pummelled by that ridiculous noise wants to kill you?

[Pilgrim21784]

Originally Posted by johnnytang24

Doesn't matter if he was riding what you consider to be improper. The fact is: his loud pipes saved his life that night.

We'd all like to think that defensive riding is the end all, but at some point, we all have to rely on the gratuity of other vehicles. Whether it's stopped at a light, vehicles crossing our right of way, etc. some things can't be avoided simply by being aware. We have to attract the awareness of the other drivers as well. Why do emergency vehicles have sirens? Why would we limit ourselves to visual stimulus when we can use both visual and audio stimuli to get the awareness of other drivers?

Okay, I'm not really inclined or interested in a prolonged discussion on the subject, it would not be useful. I'll offer the following comments and be done with it.

1) Any rider who places themselves in a position where cagers don't know they are there needs to go back to basic riding school. Those that don't will get killed and it cleans out the gene pool.

Sorry, I'm not a supporter of the Save The Idiots group of motorcycle riders. It has similarities to my experience in combat in Viet Nam. There, if you were lucky and did everything as best you could (and were lucky) - you might survive. Be an idiot and you died. There is a wonderful purity about riding a motorcycle, its quite similar, IMO, to combat and probably one of the reasons I enjoy it.

Loud pipes saves lives --- of WHO? Riders too dumb to ride with a minimum of common sense? I view their demise as a positive public benefit (I just object to paying medical costs for their actions).

In case you haven't noticed, I don't have a touchy/oh my sympathy reaction to riders who get crippled or killed not using the best protective gear currently available. No apologies from me - you want the freedom of not wearing helmet - no problem here. I do think its probably a measure of IQ, but hey, thats just my dumb a** opinion.

Ride free and die - whatever works for you - NO medical subsidizes from me and we're cool.

2) No one has an inalienable right to be a serious, obnoxious nuisance to their neighbor. One's "rights" are limited by the end of the nose (or ears) of their neighbor and that very definitely includes noise.

One doesn't have some dispensation in the Constitution to annoy me with your noise levels based on your choice of vehicular travel. Do that in my neighborhood and I'll project that the lawsuits will bankrupt you (and I will be funding a good portion of it).

Societies throughout the history of human existence function best when all members respect the general public's common preferences. You violate that at one's peril.

I wear the highest quality safety gear money can buy, all Hi Viz and am always attentive to the fact that a two wheeler is a high risk choice. I've just never been a concern to my neighbors nor had any complaints about my hobby. My neighbors have equal rights to the impact of my preferences on their quality of life and respecting that is a fundamental requirement to me of being a good neighbor and responsible rider. JMO