Helmet law needed (stopping, engine, highway, Jeep)

[ChrisFromChicago]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

What safety net? I don't have access to any stinking safety nets. i pay my own way and probably a good part of yours too in this world since I work and pay taxes. I get a nice 1099 form for that.

My bike is well insured too, at 1000 over it's worth.

It is you city dwellers who we country folks must always pay for..

I recall when hunting lic cost 50 cents... and now they are well over 50 bucks for locals...

I used to do state car inspections for that same 50 cents and not that is almost 50 bucks too.

Worst of all the dammned DMV whos jobs are useless get to carry guns at my tax expense.

We got more people who get high paid welfare! I don't cost you 2 cents....

Now i see you traded Liberty for Security, but I never did!

So you ignore (willfully or ignorantly) the safety net behind you. That a hospital will treat you regardless of your ability to pay, that your insurance company will pay even if you promised you would wear a helmet, that the hospital will turn over any uncollected fees to the government. . .and that you won't pay your taxes because your hurt, and probably get medicaid or some other hand-out while you are at it.

You can ignore the safety net, but it is there.

That safety net passes on, according to the CDC, over 1 billion in economic costs per year to people like me.

[ChrisFromChicago]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

Oh BS....... This has 0 effect on your insurance or taxes. Your taxes are affected by Govt waste, and welfare, not riders.

No one even knows what speed a lid will 'save' a rider, as each crash is individual, and in a lot of crashes the lid is nothing more than a bucket.

What drives up costs is poly tics and fat scum bag lawyers, which make up insurance company's work forces.

This is the same .. .My faith is more reasonable than facts. . .argument. LIke people not wanting to wear seatbelts on airplanes (what is the use) even though 90% of airplane incidents you can walk away from. . .because they happen to/from the freaking gate.

If you bothered to understand the reality (which was posted earlier in this forum) the CDC and others have done comparison of helmets and non-helmet states. The fatality rate, at a macro level, is about A 40% reduction.

True, every accident is unique. . .but if you put a helmet on then your chances are improved significantly that if you had an accident, you would live to tell the tell.

BTW - your argument is a little red herring fallacy. Why tackle this economic waste, look at the waste of XYZ. Let me find something else worse, and that would invalidate your entire point (which isn't true.. )

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago

So you ignore (willfully or ignorantly) ........That safety net passes on, according to the CDC, over 1 billion in economic costs per year to people like me.

Ironically I went to the trouble of finding, reading, posting and explaining the cdc non-economic study and you ignored my post.

Why not root up a real economic study on the costs from somebody out of U of Chicago instead of some hack with no economics background whom ignored OBVIOUS cost\savings impacts in their simplistic *study*.

It may be worse than a billion, it may be an actual savings.....but we don't know and to claim otherwise is being willfully ignorant.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago

This is the same .. .My faith is more reasonable than facts. . .argument. LIke people not wanting to wear seatbelts on airplanes (what is the use) even though 90% of airplane incidents you can walk away from. . .because they happen to/from the freaking gate.

If you bothered to understand the reality (which was posted earlier in this forum) the CDC and others have done comparison of helmets and non-helmet states. The fatality rate, at a macro level, is about A 40% reduction.

True, every accident is unique. . .but if you put a helmet on then your chances are improved significantly that if you had an accident, you would live to tell the tell.

BTW - your argument is a little red herring fallacy. Why tackle this economic waste, look at the waste of XYZ. Let me find something else worse, and that would invalidate your entire point (which isn't true.. )

Motorcycles are inherently dangerous, why not just ban them all-together?
The point being that WHERE on the slippery slope do you require helmets, seatbelts and so forth?

Heck speed limits are set all the time with regard to a trade-off between freedoms, economic interests and deaths.

Note that I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with either of you on the topic of requiring helmets.

In fact, I would add that the US Marine Corp has looked VERY hard at allowing the use of motorcycles after losing more marines to motorcycles in a month than to combat.

Additionally, for every 100 supersport bikes (aka crotch rockets) licensed in the US, there will be approximately 2.2 deaths EVERY YEAR. That's some crazy crazy stuff.....

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago

What is wrong with this country is the one-sided self centered nature. People stand by their "rights" yet they have this safety net of rights that protect them, at our expense.

Why should your liberty be exercised at my financial expense?

Well now that you've established freedom should be based on money what's your price?

[PDD]

Why do people argue over helmet laws?
It's pretty simple smart riders wear helmets. those not too smart don't.

You should not be required to wear a helmet but your license should indicate your choice as a none helmet wearer. This way when the medics scrape you up off the pavement they check your license and than move on to those who are more concerned about their safety.

Stupid people should not be required to keep themselves safe. If they don't care why should anybody else.

Somebody did coin the phrase "you can't fix stupid".

[mustangman66]

PDD, after they scrape you off the pavement will they put your head on the mantle over the fireplace? If they have to scrape you off the pavement a helmet is not going to do a thing to protect you. You will have a pancake body with a perfect head. So what you are saying is that instead of scraping the complete pancake off the road they will move on to scrape the pancake with a perfect head, lol. Makes sense..your right.."cant fix stupid". The scenario you just provided proves that a helmet is a false sense of security. Either way your doomed in that sort of scenario.

I dont even ride a motorcycle, but feel helmet laws should be choice. If your that concerend about safety you probably shouldnt be riding one in the first place. We do things that are unsafe everyday...should we jump through hoops to instill unneccessay safety nets for everything we do?

Next time you go for a run on the side of the road I want you to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads etc. because you could fall and hurt yourself, or a car could hit you from behind. We wouldnt want you getting hurt now.

[PDD]

Originally Posted by mustangman66

PDD, after they scrape you off the pavement will they put your head on the mantle over the fireplace? If they have to scrape you off the pavement a helmet is not going to do a thing to protect you. You will have a pancake body with a perfect head. So what you are saying is that instead of scraping the complete pancake off the road they will move on to scrape the pancake with a perfect head, lol. Makes sense..your right.."cant fix stupid". The scenario you just provided proves that a helmet is a false sense of security. Either way your doomed in that sort of scenario.

I dont even ride a motorcycle, but feel helmet laws should be choice. If your that concerend about safety you probably shouldnt be riding one in the first place. We do things that are unsafe everyday...should we jump through hoops to instill unneccessay safety nets for everything we do?

Next time you go for a run on the side of the road I want you to wear a helmet, knee pads, elbow pads etc. because you could fall and hurt yourself, or a car could hit you from behind. We wouldnt want you getting hurt now.

Can you imagine a motorcycle racer not wearing a helmet while racing? He has no chance of being hit by a car or running into a bridge abutment like a street rider does yet they all wear a helmet because the people who promote racing know that helmets save lives. If only street riders were that smart.
Why should medics waste their time on people who don't care?

Why would I run on the side of a road? I don't even ride my bicycle on public roads or anyplace where motor vehicles are.

[ReblTeen84]

Originally Posted by PDD

Why do people argue over helmet laws?
It's pretty simple smart riders wear helmets. those not too smart don't.

You should not be required to wear a helmet but your license should indicate your choice as a none helmet wearer. This way when the medics scrape you up off the pavement they check your license and than move on to those who are more concerned about their safety.

Stupid people should not be required to keep themselves safe. If they don't care why should anybody else.

Somebody did coin the phrase "you can't fix stupid".

This. I have up close and personal experience that a helmet WILL keep your head in one piece when you fly off the bike at 50. I'm told the helmet saved my life, since I hit a guardrail after I flew and slid. I have that helmet on my shelf to remind me of this every time I ride.

If you want to ride without a helmet, as far as I'm concerned you're as dumb as a broken brick and should be treated as such by the medics if you go down. If your head is cracked open and your brains are leaking, take a hose and wash it down the drain and move on to someone who needs their help more. I also agree with your insurance company making your carry a $1M rider to pay for your medical costs so John Q. Taxpayer doesn't have to cover it if you don't have enough medical insurance. If you go down w/o said rider on your insurance, then you're 100% responsible for your costs. If you live, of course. Otherwise, it comes out of your estate. If there's not enough there to cover it, well, I would say that family is responsible for it, but then I don't think your family should be responsible for your stupidity either so it's a catch-22.

[Irishtom29]

I think many pro helmet people just hate to see people having a little fun, just a new form of traditional American Puritanism. Add to that a resentment some averse to risk taking have for those willing to take risk, you know, if we make being a ninny the law then no one need feel shame over being a ninny.

And yeah, I know this is an ad hominem argument.