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First off, I am not sure if this is the right place but since the related incident occurred when I was riding, I am posting it here.
Back story: First week of November 2013, at a stop sign I was making a left turn and it was my turn as I waited the other vehicles that came before me cleared the path then I proceeded. About 70% in to my turn, the vehicle to my left wanting to make a left turn, charged suddenly putting me in a collision path him. Instinctively I touched the brakes and down it went. I figured it was better than a seemingly certain collision. Bike crashed and slid may be several feet, no collision. The other vehicle managed to stop may be a few feet (tops) from me. I have a witness who was behind me at the stop sign and they were able to see the whole thing. My witness confirmed what happened and she also stated that the other vehicle failed to make a full stop (California roll). At that point, whether they stopped or not, they failed to wait till the intersection was clear before proceeding. In the heat of the incident, not physically hurt but in a little bit of a shock, I got his insurance info while he was telling me how sorry he was and that he didn't see me and all that jazz. I didn't say much and just collected his info and let him go. I didn't bother with a police report since it seemed like a cut-n-dry case, he admitted fault and it was such a minor incident.
Fast-forward almost 4 months of playing phone tag with other party's insurance claims adjuster, based on their insurer's adamant claims that he did stop and that it was their turn to go, in a way suggesting I was the one who failed to stop and cut them off. A complete and utter lie. Despite having a witness that proves their insurer was 100% at-fault, these claims came to a -convenient- conclusion that each party was 50% at-fault!
Of course, I am furious at this point, not willing to settle after being wronged and also jerked around for almost 4 months! It is not even getting the money at this point but proving the other guy was at fault and not let them get away with this.
My question is to those who has some real life experience with small claims court cases based on similar situations:
- Are my chances of winning not guaranteed even with a witness statement favoring my side of the story?
- Will it be worth it or how would you proceed?
- Are my chances of winning not guaranteed even with a witness statement favoring my side of the story? Absolutely.
- Will it be worth it or how would you proceed? No. If it's just about proving the other guy is wrong, you won't do that in small claims court. It's impossible that it could be worth it if that's what you're looking for.
- Are my chances of winning not guaranteed even with a witness statement favoring my side of the story? Absolutely.
Curious, why not? how can defense debunk it?
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- Will it be worth it or how would you proceed? No. If it's just about proving the other guy is wrong, you won't do that in small claims court. It's impossible that it could be worth it if that's what you're looking for.
Proving the other guy is wrong which will also mean I get his premium increased (hopefully) but more importantly get my damage claims paid. Please elaborate how it would not be worth my time?
What other option does a person have other than sucking it up and moving on?
I cannot let this go, not gonna happen because the only other option is my vengeful side is contemplating is far from civilized or legal. So, I rather not let the loco out of the bag just yet.
He said, she said.
From what you describe, the car stopped before it would have hit you. You were very likely blocked from view by the car you were waiting to clear the intersection. The judge will have to way your losing control of your bike versus the other driver who stopped before he crossed your line of travel.
At any rate, that my all be moot since you're likely bound by arbitration anyway. The more productive thing to do is negotiate with your insurance company about waiving any deductible for any damage that may have occurred.
By far the most productive thing to do is learn from the accident so it doesn't occur again. Start with your low speed control and panic braking. You shouldn't have dropped your bike. Hit the brakes and the bike comes up. You were doing something squirrly. What was it? Then think about road position and the effect it has on our visibility as well as how visible you are to others. There's a couple ways you can handle it. You can either wait until the car completely clears the intersection such that you have clear vision and would have easily seen the car rolling through the intersection before it "suddenly charged" at you, or you can ride very aggressively. I usually take the aggressive approach. I'm already out in the intersection. By the time his tail is clearing the midway point of the intersection, I've all but completed my left hand turn. The only way you're getting to me is by ramming your way through the other car.
Take the MSF course. They practice the exact technique. They start by having you brake immediately after a turn, then move on to having you brake mid-turn. Obviously you will not even come close to mastering that skill in the 5-10 times you get to practice it during the MSF course. That's why god invented empty parking lots. Practice in one.
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I cannot let this go, not gonna happen because the only other option is my vengeful side is contemplating is
far from civilized or legal. So, I rather not let the loco out of the bag just yet.
How so? Did you not notice the part where I mentioned I have a witness who saw the whole thing and confirms my side?
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From what you describe, the car stopped before it would have hit you. You were very likely blocked from view by the car you were waiting to clear the intersection. The judge will have to way your losing control of your bike versus the other driver who stopped before he crossed your line of travel.
I couldn't be 100% certain if he did stop and/or waited for proper amount of time or not (3 seconds after the wheel stops turning) as I was not paying attention to it at that point but one thing certain, it doesn't matter if he really stopped and even waited 3 seconds or not, he did fail to wait till his path was clear as I mentioned before and which you seem to have missed as well. His vision was not blocked in any way. From the time the vehicle ahead of me cleared the intersection until the time it took me to travel to the point of crash (18-20 feet away) he had more than ample time to see the intersection and all the vehicles crossing.
This intersection gets quite busy around rush hour plus bunch of pedestrians crossing in almost every direction so most any driver who driven that route would know well to pay extra attention as any given moment someone could jump on the crosswalk. Besides, the guy was in his 60s and admitted there was a loss in the family and he was distracted. Of course, it could have been boloney but either way, it was all verbal anyway.
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At any rate, that my all be moot since you're likely bound by arbitration anyway. The more productive thing to do is negotiate with your insurance company about waiving any deductible for any damage that may have occurred.
I don't have full coverage so my insurance company cannot get involved.
By far the most productive thing to do is learn from the accident so it doesn't occur again. Start with your low speed control and panic braking. You shouldn't have dropped your bike. Hit the brakes and the bike comes up. You were doing something squirrly. What was it? Then think about road position and the effect it has on our visibility as well as how visible you are to others. There's a couple ways you can handle it. You can either wait until the car completely clears the intersection such that you have clear vision and would have easily seen the car rolling through the intersection before it "suddenly charged" at you, or you can ride very aggressively. I usually take the aggressive approach. I'm already out in the intersection. By the time his tail is clearing the midway point of the intersection, I've all but completed my left hand turn. The only way you're getting to me is by ramming your way through the other car.
Take the MSF course. They practice the exact technique. They start by having you brake immediately after a turn, then move on to having you brake mid-turn. Obviously you will not even come close to mastering that skill in the 5-10 times you get to practice it during the MSF course. That's why god invented empty parking lots. Practice in one.
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Thanks, I know you mean well but you couldn't possibly practice for something like this, not in an empty parking lot. You would most certainly not be able to replicate the same settings and conditions to properly and authentically train for it. Easier said than done.
Anyhow, all I wanted was people's feedback on their experiences in a similar situation using small claims court which apparently not something I will be getting here.
The skill can be practiced. That's why they teach it at the MSF course. The bigger point is to pay attention when riding, especially at busy intersections. You can't react to things if you're not paying attention. You have a very condescending attitude for a cager not seeing you when you weren't even paying enough attention at a busy intersection to see him until he was suddenly roll/charging through the intersection. He's a lot bigger than you are. He's got 3,000+ pounds of crumple zones and airbags. You do not. Right or wrong doesn't even enter into it.
I don't have anything to add to what you want to hear, so I'll stop there.
The skill can be practiced. That's why they teach it at the MSF course. The bigger point is to pay attention when riding, especially at busy intersections. You can't react to things if you're not paying attention. You have a very condescending attitude for a cager not seeing you when you weren't even paying enough attention at a busy intersection to see him until he was suddenly roll/charging through the intersection. He's a lot bigger than you are. He's got 3,000+ pounds of crumple zones and airbags. You do not. Right or wrong doesn't even enter into it.
I don't have anything to add to what you want to hear, so I'll stop there.
Dude, just stop. You have no idea about my riding skills and obviously do not care to give me the benefit of the doubt and keep suggesting I was at fault, etc. then have the nerve to say I was being condescending? Are you that blind fool behind wheel of that truck who almost killed me, admitted fault, gave his insurance info only to deny the whole thing days later, even suggesting that I was the one who actually ran the stop sign?
I suggested you could have done things differently and not dropped your bike. And yes, you were condescending. It's understandable. I ride. People don't see you. It's annoying to put it mildly. Look, you ride. You obviously accept an extreme amount of risk when you choose to. Most accidents occur at intersection. It might be perfectly within your legal right to not watch for cars since it's your right-of-way and just depend upon the cars looking for you. Being right doesn't do any good when the soccer mom with two screaming whelps in the back of her Expedition and a telephone glued to her ear blows right throw a stop sign, however. You'd clearly be the legally in the right pavement smear, she'd get a ticket and maybe 50 hours of community service. I'd rather be alive than right.
First off, I am not sure if this is the right place but since the related incident occurred when I was riding, I am posting it here.
Back story: First week of November 2013, at a stop sign I was making a left turn and it was my turn as I waited the other vehicles that came before me cleared the path then I proceeded. About 70% in to my turn, the vehicle to my left wanting to make a left turn, charged suddenly putting me in a collision path him. Instinctively I touched the brakes and down it went. I figured it was better than a seemingly certain collision. Bike crashed and slid may be several feet, no collision. The other vehicle managed to stop may be a few feet (tops) from me. I have a witness who was behind me at the stop sign and they were able to see the whole thing. My witness confirmed what happened and she also stated that the other vehicle failed to make a full stop (California roll). At that point, whether they stopped or not, they failed to wait till the intersection was clear before proceeding. In the heat of the incident, not physically hurt but in a little bit of a shock, I got his insurance info while he was telling me how sorry he was and that he didn't see me and all that jazz. I didn't say much and just collected his info and let him go. I didn't bother with a police report since it seemed like a cut-n-dry case, he admitted fault and it was such a minor incident.
Fast-forward almost 4 months of playing phone tag with other party's insurance claims adjuster, based on their insurer's adamant claims that he did stop and that it was their turn to go, in a way suggesting I was the one who failed to stop and cut them off. A complete and utter lie. Despite having a witness that proves their insurer was 100% at-fault, these claims came to a -convenient- conclusion that each party was 50% at-fault!
Of course, I am furious at this point, not willing to settle after being wronged and also jerked around for almost 4 months! It is not even getting the money at this point but proving the other guy was at fault and not let them get away with this.
My question is to those who has some real life experience with small claims court cases based on similar situations:
- Are my chances of winning not guaranteed even with a witness statement favoring my side of the story?
- Will it be worth it or how would you proceed?
Thank you.
And that's why it's 50% at fault. Without that, there is no proof that you are not at fault and that the driver was at fault. Even with a witness, it's still a he said she said thing.
I had the same exact thing happen to me except I was going straight on a two way road and a car turned left right in front of me. But I got a police report and everything was taken care of extremely easily.
And that's why it's 50% at fault. Without that, there is no proof that you are not at fault and that the driver was at fault. Even with a witness, it's still a he said she said thing.
I had the same exact thing happen to me except I was going straight on a two way road and a car turned left right in front of me. But I got a police report and everything was taken care of extremely easily.
It was traffic time and the police station at the school was like 1/4 mile away but interestingly enough, no cops ever came by while we were there for about 30+ minutes. For damages under $500, I didn't think you even needed a police report.
Why would the crash still be my fault to not have a police report? Further more, what is the point of having a witness if 2 against 1 still meant my word against your word? Makes no sense whatsoever but thanks for the input. I am filing a lawsuit and we will see if the justice system is really just or not.
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I suggested you could have done things differently and not dropped your bike. And yes, you were condescending. It's understandable. I ride. People don't see you. It's annoying to put it mildly. Look, you ride. You obviously accept an extreme amount of risk when you choose to. Most accidents occur at intersection. It might be perfectly within your legal right to not watch for cars since it's your right-of-way and just depend upon the cars looking for you. Being right doesn't do any good when the soccer mom with two screaming whelps in the back of her Expedition and a telephone glued to her ear blows right throw a stop sign, however. You'd clearly be the legally in the right pavement smear, she'd get a ticket and maybe 50 hours of community service. I'd rather be alive than right.
#1 - Didn't ask if there was anything I could have done or whose fault it was, etc. No doubt in my mind that the other guy is at fault. He claims he stopped. I don't care if he stopped or got out of his stupid truck and tap danced, as far as I am concerned, his fault was that he failed to wait till the intersection was clear. Again, I didn't ask opinions on this, yet you kept preaching about "wuda cuda shuda" based on assumptions.
#2 - I was not being condescending, not sure where you got that from but it is your opinion and I neither asked nor care to hear it. Not relevant, not helpful and oddly enough, I felt you have been judgmental and condescending.
#3 - I never said I wasn't paying attention, if I wasn't, I probably would have ended up under that truck (which might have been less painful than reading replies to this thread that I, now, regret ever creating).
All I said was I wasn't certain about how long he waited, it could have been 1 second or 5, I saw him come to the stop sign and stop but I got other vehicles to watch and a road and my riding to focus on. No one can watch everything all the time, not possible.
And yes, I have taken the MSF course and I have been riding long enough to know that you can get better but will never be 100% crash proof.
Take a look at this picture to get an idea. Red star show roughly when I crash, blue star is where the bike ended up and the short black line show the trajectory of the truck making the left turn I was may be a foot or two away from his bumper when he noticed the commotion and stopped:
Right about to the right of the white arrow was a car waiting to turn right as soon as I cleared.
It won't relay the details and facts but should give you an idea. Still I doubt it will effect your outlook or your apparent low opinion of me. I am sure you will think I wuda, cuda, shuda done this or not done that.
I don't really care becuase as far as I am concerned, this thread has been as useful as extra hair on my b@lls.
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