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I'm fascinated by this topic and wish there was more data available. I understand that in recent years studies have shown that a typical motorcycle will produce much more hydrocarbons and smog causing tail-pipe emissions. However, I'm curious to know how much recent enhancements have had on reducing emissions and haven't had much luck finding meaningful data on the web. For example, I would like to understand the effects on emissions for specific technological differences, such as:
Engine cooling - air cooled vs liquid cooled
Carbureted vs fuel injected with catalytic converter
Engine displacement
CA emissions model vs non-CA emissions
I would be fascinated to see an emissions comparison between different motorcycle models and see if there are any that are at least as close to having car-level emissions.
For instance, how would a 2015 Honda CBR500R (liquid cooled and fuel injected) which has passed CA emissions compare to a 1300cc Harley that is air cooled and carbureted?
Motorcycles in most jurisdictions are required to meet the same smog tests as cars. There will be variance on the amount produced by different engines, no different than cars. A Civic makes a different level of exhaust than a Corvette.
Basically, look at the data for cars, and you can extrapolate the same thing.
Motorcycles in most jurisdictions are required to meet the same smog tests as cars. There will be variance on the amount produced by different engines, no different than cars. A Civic makes a different level of exhaust than a Corvette.
Basically, look at the data for cars, and you can extrapolate the same thing.
Well, you have an absolute limit. Most cars are way, way under the limit when new. I think both the Civic and Corvette are ULEV. Most new bikes will meet Euro 3 as that's required to sell them in Europe. Emission limits in the US haven't changed for almost 40 years. CA or any state using its emission requirements is a bit more stringent than the federal requirements but well below Europe. A few bikes are now Euro 4 which is only slightly less than what is required of current cars.
All of it adds up to a huge difference. If you're talking about an old pre FI Harley versus a new one, it's maybe putting out 1/5th the pollution. Of course most Harleys are running loud pipes so there goes most of your difference. The emission stuff doesn't do anything once you take it off to make your bike louder. I posted the limits in the other thread. Doesn't really tell you what any individual bike would make, but Harley put the catalyzers and went fuel injection so it could sell their bikes in Europe. So Euro 2 is basically a good floor. They wouldn't have done it if they didn't have to.
Anywhere I could find out what the emissions would be for a 150cc GY6 Chinese scooter (4 cycle, carbureted and air-cooled) and a Kawasaki Ninja 500R from 1997? Both have stock exhaust.
I'm very interested in this as well. It seems most of the "studies" (which aren't exactly scientific) aren't specific about what bikes they're talking about. As mentioned above, surely there must be a HUGE difference between an air cooled and carbureted motorcycle with no catalytic converter and a liquid-cooled and fuel injected motorcycle with a catalytic converter.
Motorcycles emit very little compared to cars and larger vehicles, hence the reason MCs are allowed to use HOV lanes.
This is simple a function of displacement; there's only so much A/F that can be burned in my V-Star's 650cc engine. For perspective, compare amount that with the amount of A/F burned in my buddy's 5.8L (5800cc) Toyota pickup.
Motorcycles emit very little compared to cars and larger vehicles, hence the reason MCs are allowed to use HOV lanes.
This is simple a function of displacement; there's only so much A/F that can be burned in my V-Star's 650cc engine. For perspective, compare amount that with the amount of A/F burned in my buddy's 5.8L (5800cc) Toyota pickup.
Do you have a source for that? I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just trying to nail this down.
Most of the information online says that motorcycles use less gas and produce less carbon dioxide, but produce MANY times more carbon monoxide and nitric oxides.
What I'm not sure on is if that's still true for a liquid cooled, fuel injected, and catalytic converter equipped motorcycle. Besides that, are the numbers for motorcycles only so much greater in terms of PPM? As you mention, a motorcycle puts out many less "parts", so a measurement in PPM is very slanted.
I'm very interested in this as well. It seems most of the "studies" (which aren't exactly scientific) aren't specific about what bikes they're talking about. As mentioned above, surely there must be a HUGE difference between an air cooled and carbureted motorcycle with no catalytic converter and a liquid-cooled and fuel injected motorcycle with a catalytic converter.
Well, you can kind of get an idea of it roughly. Take the Triumph Bonneville, it went FI in 2007 so it could be sold in Europe. That's not exactly what you're asking because the pre-07 Bonnieville was a carbed, air-cooled motorcycle that did have a catalyzer but it does give at least some idea. The non-FI Bonneville couldn't meet Euro3, which was about double the pollution that new cars at the time were required to meet. So you know at a minimum that even with a catalyzer they were polluting twice as much as cars. Rumor is the new Bonneville is going liquid cooled. The new GS is liquid cooled for the same reason. It's getting out in front of Euro4 before it goes into effect which necessitated the switch. Maybe also why the HD Street went water-cooled as well, although I don't know that.
A lot of new bikes are now Euro4 compliant as it starts going into effect starting in six months (phased in). Euro4 has only slight limits than Euro6, notable it's just absent particulate levels. Of course, most cars are well under the limits. Finding something that's only LEV is actually difficult to do these days. Slowpoke's buddy's 5.8L Toyota is Bin5, for example, which is well under the limits. My car in Bin3/PZEZ, which is 90% less than the (now suspended) Bin9. Obviously the V-star is putting out significantly less C02, but that's really the emission that matters the least. Despite burning less fuel, even something Euro4 compliant still could be significantly dirtier than most cars simply because most cars are well under emission limits although there's nothing to say that Euro3/4-compliant bikes likewise aren't significantly under the maximums allowed.
Do you have a source for that? I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just trying to nail this down.
Most of the information online says that motorcycles use less gas and produce less carbon dioxide, but produce MANY times more carbon monoxide and nitric oxides.
What I'm not sure on is if that's still true for a liquid cooled, fuel injected, and catalytic converter equipped motorcycle. Besides that, are the numbers for motorcycles only so much greater in terms of PPM? As you mention, a motorcycle puts out many less "parts", so a measurement in PPM is very slanted.
I was referring to the overall quantity of emissions. Using my previous example, a 600cc engine will expel far less gaseous matter from the tailpipe(s) per revolution than will a 5.8 liter engine.
Even if the proportions of emitted substances vary significantly between cars and MCs, I bet the overall difference in quantity of total emissions will still result in MCs emitting less of any given substance than a car.
And what kind of motorcycle has a catalytic converter???
And what kind of motorcycle has a catalytic converter???
Don't most new ones nowadays? I know my FZ6 does. I think a lot of times they are packaged with the muffler, but mine is separate.
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