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You're still ignoring RPMs, and if you insist on forming opinions based on only bits and pieces of information, then you're always going to be in the dark/frustrated. Again, the Vmax HP is taken at 9,000 RPM, not 3,600 and it's always held the segment between cruiser and sport, with the torture rack cruiser riding position and high strung engine.
Not sure why you're bring cylinder count into this as it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It's strictly about engine design, looking to hit the points that the engineers desire.
More relevantly, the Vmax also costs pretty close to half again as much an 8-Ball does. Now, it's not all in the engine but those large, antiquated pushrod motors are cheap ways of producing big torque. Vegas 8-Ball costs about the same amount a Triumph 800 does, less than a XC. For majority of cruiser buyers who could give a rats arse about horsepower, why? Same deal with the V-rod, which was/is Harleys attempt to attract younger buyers. That didn't really work that well as cruiser buyers don't care about horsepower, even if you drape a lingerie model on it. Once they got rid of Buell, my interest in Harley dropped to zero. Cruisers don't interest me.
Also, a low output motor is not going to scatter any time soon. You don't want to be in BF Tennessee and worry about your hi-hp Duc factory rep racer chewing a cam belt. You want your bike to start every day and after every coffee break with no drama. Ride a zillion miles without having to worry about the chain, etc . . . When I rode my Harley, I didn't want to go fast, I just wanted to lay back and watch the world go by very slowly. That's what most other cruiser guys I know wanted. Whatever performance means to you, it most likely is the last thing a touring person cares about.
Except...Harley's (at least some) have some real longevity issues. A poor cam chain and tensioner design leads to very premature engine failure. Many owners spend big $$ on gear drives to correct this factory defect that can bite owners at just 30k miles. And those aren't "AMF" Harley's, that was in the 2000s (may still be true, I don't know). I don't know of any other manufacturer that hasn't figured out how to make a street motorcycle engine last over 100k with basic maintenance.
If Harley owners don't care about making some power...why do so many spend lots of money on "Screaming Eagle" parts trying to get just a little more out of them? Why do so many more spend many thousands on entire aftermarket engines?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like Harleys (and especially Victories), beautiful bikes.
You're still ignoring RPMs, and if you insist on forming opinions based on only bits and pieces of information, then you're always going to be in the dark/frustrated. Again, the Vmax HP is taken at 9,000 RPM, not 3,600 and it's always held the segment between cruiser and sport, with the torture rack cruiser riding position and high strung engine.
Not sure why you're bring cylinder count into this as it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. It's strictly about engine design, looking to hit the points that the engineers desire.
Except...the V makes very similar torque to the HD motor at low RPMs (per your curve). Slightly less, yes, but close. However, it doesn't check out at 4500 RPM. I'm actually envious-wish the Rocket motor pulled at higher RPMs and made that kind of power. If they put a decent sized fuel tank on a V I'd probably own one.
Don't get me wrong, the cruiser approach obviously works-they are by far the largest selling class of bikes. It will be interesting to see how the market moves in the future. Harley has developed a contemporary engine in the V-Rod, and now Victory has the Octane. I'd like to take both for a spin sometime. I just wonder if they have managed to maintain the long-range comfort of the traditional cruiser.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 05-07-2016 at 03:19 PM..
Except...Harley's (at least some) have some real longevity issues. A poor cam chain and tensioner design leads to very premature engine failure. Many owners spend big $$ on gear drives to correct this factory defect that can bite owners at just 30k miles. And those aren't "AMF" Harley's, that was in the 2000s (may still be true, I don't know). I don't know of any other manufacturer that hasn't figured out how to make a street motorcycle engine last over 100k with basic maintenance.
If Harley owners don't care about making some power...why do so many spend lots of money on "Screaming Eagle" parts trying to get just a little more out of them? Why do so many more spend many thousands on entire aftermarket engines?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like Harleys (and especially Victories), beautiful bikes.
I was going to write out a long response, but its not worth it~ You have your opinion, I have mine. Based on my ownership of a few HDs and knowing a lot of people who have them, my experience is entirely different. I just don't have it in me to engage in another internet "Harley Sucks" thread
Except...Harley's (at least some) have some real longevity issues. A poor cam chain and tensioner design leads to very premature engine failure. Many owners spend big $$ on gear drives to correct this factory defect that can bite owners at just 30k miles. And those aren't "AMF" Harley's, that was in the 2000s (may still be true, I don't know). I don't know of any other manufacturer that hasn't figured out how to make a street motorcycle engine last over 100k with basic maintenance.
If Harley owners don't care about making some power...why do so many spend lots of money on "Screaming Eagle" parts trying to get just a little more out of them? Why do so many more spend many thousands on entire aftermarket engines?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like Harleys (and especially Victories), beautiful bikes.
I'm not sure about the cam chain tensioners in recent years but outside of that I think they can go over 100k miles with regular maintenance. Although now that I think of it, the recent models run very hot due to increased engine size and a lean air/fuel mixture from the factory. The previous edition engines, made from the mid-80s to the late 90s (I think), have lasted over 100k miles if it was taken care of.
As far as the screaming eagle parts go, the company knows how popular their bikes are, and they know people will pay a lot for them and spend even more to make them more powerful.
I'm not sure about the cam chain tensioners in recent years but outside of that I think they can go over 100k miles with regular maintenance. Although now that I think of it, the recent models run very hot due to increased engine size and a lean air/fuel mixture from the factory. The previous edition engines, made from the mid-80s to the late 90s (I think), have lasted over 100k miles if it was taken care of.
As far as the screaming eagle parts go, the company knows how popular their bikes are, and they know people will pay a lot for them and spend even more to make them more powerful.
Honestly, I don't know just how bad the chain tensioner issue really is. A few problems get discussed on the internet and it tends to get blown all out of proportion. HDs design and brand marketing obviously works very, very well.
Also, a low output motor is not going to scatter any time soon. You don't want to be in BF Tennessee and worry about your hi-hp Duc factory rep racer chewing a cam belt. You want your bike to start every day and after every coffee break with no drama. Ride a zillion miles without having to worry about the chain, etc . . . When I rode my Harley, I didn't want to go fast, I just wanted to lay back and watch the world go by very slowly. That's what most other cruiser guys I know wanted. Whatever performance means to you, it most likely is the last thing a touring person cares about.
LOL, they'll get there...eventually. The ride, not the destination. Right?
LOL, they'll get there...eventually. The ride, not the destination. Right?
Every modern Harley (and most any cruiser over 250cc) made today will easily break the posted speed limit anywhere in the country.
The average HD will run 0-60 in about 4-5 seconds and a 1/4 mile between 12-14 seconds. Slower than the average sport bike? Absolutely, but it's actually on par with a Mustang GT......so "slow" is a relative term.
One has to remember too that the chassis on these bikes are not meant for doing Kenny Roberts impressions and that the people who ride them, for the most part, really couldn't care less about big HP numbers any more than the people who drive a Lincoln Town Car care about drag racing.
As a rider who has learned to slow down and take in the scenery for the preservation of my old bones, I say.........It's all good.
(Besides, the backrest that helps with my sciatica would look pretty silly on a Ninja H2R)
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