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Old 06-27-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,396 posts, read 44,958,185 times
Reputation: 13599

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heh
I haven't even seen Iron Man 2. (I did enjoy the first one.)
But when it comes to that sort of notion, the idea of mass market crud--I don't think that you and I necessarily violently disagree on the subject.
I can't help ya with capitalism and what it does to the arts, but even John Singer Sargent had to paint portraits, even Beethoven had to crank out a composition or two for patrons.
The way I deal with utter garbage is: I simply don't participate. They don't get my money or my time. I imagine I might participate more than you do--I dunno.

Now people will say that this stuff wouldn't be produced if people did not buy it. Yep, people are paying money to see Adam Sandler. People also paid money to see Al Jolson sing "Mammy" in blackface.

I think the thrust of my argument is that the opportunity for great film-making *is* there, it *is* being utilized, and viewers *are* seeing really damned good movies.

Let's look at Get Him to the Greek.
Some of the shallow vapidity that you and Moose deplore is ably satirized in this movie.
Is it great, tasteful art? No. It's probably not even quite up to Spinal Tap standards, but it's ramshackle road-movie summer entertainment.

I think Moose is right that summer leans towards the lighter (some may read: crappier) stuff, but 2009 saw some very good movies, and some of them were even mainstream, not indie.

Linson, I live in a one theater town. ONE THEATER.
Austin, San Francisco, NYC it ain't!
Netflix has all kinds of streaming movies, and also, of course, the rentals.
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Old 06-27-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,396 posts, read 44,958,185 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post


We should be more educated, more knowledgeable than any of our forebears ever were. We have it all at our fingertips and for what ? So that "talent" shows can top the TV charts and "Prince of Persia" make more than some excellent foreign film ? We have no excuses , and I have always hated waste. It makes my blood boil to see what we could be and yet refuse to strive for.
We should indeed be more educated--and it is sad when some *willfully* remain so. We should revere the arts more than we do, the Almighty Dollar should not rule as it does.
I think some people work very hard all day, and by nightfall or on the weekends they simply do not want to exercise their minds. They are just so tired and used up.
They simply want to sit there and be manipulated (whether they know it or not.)
Quote:
But then again I am French so the pretentious mantle was always going to have to fall on my shoulder !! Beret or no beret that is the question....

A baguette is sometimes more than a baguette.
LOL ::blows kisses to Moose::
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
37,769 posts, read 40,907,997 times
Reputation: 62081
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
i just have different sensibilities, i guess, but i think that 95 percent of the movie-going public must be morons.
Some people laugh when people fall off their high horse. I laugh at people who go to the movies to be educated.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,591,266 times
Reputation: 20165
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Some people laugh when people fall off their high horse. I laugh at people who go to the movies to be educated.
I don't think the issue is about being educated but about quality and the craft of cinema being debased by an increasing level of mindless trash.

I go to the movies to be entertained. Like everyone else. Sorry to stay firmly on my high horse but I nonetheless expect the entertainment to be of high quality. As I expect good food when I go to the restaurant. Even if I go to have meatloaf ( rather than fine cuisine) I still expect the meatloaf to be of the best quality. I make no apologies for having standards.

Revelling in the lowest common denominator is to me nothing but a sure way to cultural disaster. Why be satisfied with utter tripe when we have the means to create decent stuff ?

Why do quality and entertainment have to be mutually exclusive ? Is that simply because the masses are so bloated with garbage they develop an addiction to it and cannot bear anything with even a modicum of quality attached to it ?

I am sure we have enough talented writers to write funny, clever, poignant, moving, exciting drama/comedy/action films without having to compromise on the quality.

I personally find it amazing that one is accused of basically being a snob simply for wanting a little better. I have noticed this in all other aspects of society where wanting to raise the level of stuff being produced is somehow considered to be pretentious and misguided.

No wonder we end up with the trash we do. It seems we deserve everything we get as a society.

A slightly more thinking society would not be a bad thing and I find it shocking that moronic is actually praised above anything . Our culture of failure and low expectations is a pretty sorry state of affairs.


But then again I can't really be seeing the full picture, seeing it all from the vantage point of my high horse.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:09 AM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,396 posts, read 44,958,185 times
Reputation: 13599
Perhaps part of the problem is that art appreciation can be very subjective.
(See post #31, where I mention Adam Sandler and Al Jolson in the same sentence. )

What movie-making should or shouldn't be is subjective.

The people who want the bread and circus type movie will easily find it.

The people who want more sustenance need not fret--it's out there.
Or just stay home. It's as easy as streaming it on your personal computer.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,591,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate View Post
Perhaps part of the problem is that art appreciation can be very subjective.
(See post #31, where I mention Adam Sandler and Al Jolson in the same sentence. )

What movie-making should or shouldn't be is subjective.

The people who want the bread and circus type movie will easily find it.

The people who want more sustenance need not fret--it's out there.
Or just stay home. It's as easy as streaming it on your personal computer.
I certainly agree that Art is very subjective. Finding "bread and circus" is a lot easier than "ciabatta and opera" though...

My problem is that like the physical act of going to the movie rather than watching it at home so my choices tend to be limited by whatever is on offer at my local Art cinema. I feel I miss a huge amount of good stuff because it's simply not financially viable enough.

I realise that is what democracy is about, power to the majority but I guess I feel the majority often has shall we say... strange taste ( or to be blunt lack of therein)

I accept the label of snob quite happily when it comes to various aspects of culture but to be fair to me I think reverse snobbism is even more potent and prevalent. I can enjoy a lot of popular culture but it seems many people would rather have their eyeballs tattoed than watch a foreign film or Indie film. If that's not snobby and pretentious to assume something is rubbish because it's different then I don't know what is.

I think a lot of people with more populist tastes can be just as judgemental ( more actually) and sit on their high horses far more than I can. But apparently to many people double standards are OK and reverse snobbism is perfectly acceptable which really drives me up the wall.

For example in the UK it is OK to make fun of someone like myself who goes to the Theatre and the Opera but should anyone deride Soccer, game shows or reality shows then you are an incurable snob, arrogant and pretentious... Snobbism really is a two way street like racism. And both sides are just as ugly and silly IMO.



You seem to have found the perfect balance and I am envious ! I do try and will quite happily accompany friends to films I have no interest in ( I am sadly usually right about my misconceptions but at least I play the game and sometimes I am pleasantly surprised).

I have yet been able to drag someone who prefers blockbusters to a foreign film or an opera... I wonder who is the biggest snob of all, me or my friends...
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:18 AM
 
Location: in the southwest
13,396 posts, read 44,958,185 times
Reputation: 13599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
I think a lot of people with more populist tastes can be just as judgemental ( more actually) and sit on their high horses far more than I can. But apparently to many people double standards are OK and reverse snobbism is perfectly acceptable which really drives me up the wall.
Agree.:
It would be nice if *both* cognoscenti as well as the more down-to-earth types could disagree without any put-downs.
Conflicting opinions are inevitable, but rudeness need not be.
Quote:
You seem to have found the perfect balance and I am envious !
Not perfect, I must wait to see many films, but I have learned to be content with the situation. I found out that it really isn't the end of the world when I have to wait for DVD.
Quote:
I have yet been able to drag someone who prefers blockbusters to a foreign film or an opera...
Ah well, perhaps an operatic foreign indie movie involving soccer would help.
If you write it, they will come....
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:01 AM
 
2,053 posts, read 4,807,753 times
Reputation: 2410
Willow and Mooseketeer, fantastic posts.

What is your opinion, regarding this statement: "why can't one enjoy any movies/music/tv options without criticizing others so harshly?!"
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:21 PM
 
1,949 posts, read 5,255,488 times
Reputation: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Some people laugh when people fall off their high horse. I laugh at people who go to the movies to be educated.
you must be on your high horse right now. who the hell said anything about wanting to be educated at the movies? exactly! no one did. it seems that you see no distinction between being educated and just NOT having your intelligence insulted. i laugh at people who dont know the knife from the wound.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:08 AM
 
Location: UK
2,579 posts, read 2,447,574 times
Reputation: 1689
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
Some people laugh when people fall off their high horse. I laugh at people who go to the movies to be educated.
I don't think it's a matter of wanting to be educated rather of wanting to leave the movie theatre not feeling that you have wasted your time and your money without having being entertained but in fact bored.

When I was younger I would watch anything but now that I have a lot less time and opportunity to watch a movie I want to see things well done that stimulate and challenge me in some ways either intellectually, emotionally or estetically.


Unfortunately I have some of the problems that BWP and Moose have as I live in a town with just one 8 screen cinema which offers only blockbasters (By the way not all blockbusters are bad). I have the additional problems that with three children I do not always have somebody looking after the children when a promising movie comes out.

But thankfully I am able to buy DVDs 3 times a year in Jumble Sale or I buy them in Amazon when I hear of a good movie.

It does not matter if the movie is a few seasons old and I don't apologise for being selective
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