U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Entertainment and Arts > Movies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-04-2011, 11:36 AM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I'm still skeptical.

On The Dark Knight, as soon as stuff started leaking out, I thought it was certainly a different take on Batman, but it looked very exciting. Third film leaks (so far at least) haven't struck me the same way.

And I'm not on the Nolan Is A Genius Wagon. I loved The Dark Knight. Probably the best superhero movie ever made. But I was underwhelmed by Batman Begins. It wasn't bad by any means. It just wasn't great. A so-so movie that started out very good but progressed well into silly territory the farther the movie progressed.

So for the third film, I'm certainly hopeful. But not optimistic based on what I've seen so far.
What's it going to take? Memento, both Batman movies, Inception, and the best Al Pacino movie (Insomnia) since Carlito's Way.

Who is a genius to you in the film world?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-04-2011, 11:56 AM
 
7,376 posts, read 12,524,711 times
Reputation: 6934
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
What's it going to take? Memento, both Batman movies, Inception, and the best Al Pacino movie (Insomnia) since Carlito's Way.

Who is a genius to you in the film world?
Touche! +rep
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 12:07 PM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1977 View Post
Touche! +rep
Let's be fair to the guy, perhaps he grants the "genius" label to no one. I respect that!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,718,275 times
Reputation: 17188
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
What's it going to take? Memento, both Batman movies, Inception, and the best Al Pacino movie (Insomnia) since Carlito's Way.

Who is a genius to you in the film world?
Depends on how you define genius, I guess.

Take Spielberg for example. There's no doubt the guy has made some classic movies and (along with Lucas) invented the blockbuster movie. But lots of people have noted he tends to repeat themes, re-use the same type of camera tricks, etc. So all Spielberg movies tend to have a similar flavor. I don't disagree with any of that. But I would also say the same thing about Beethoeven, Mozart, Bach, DaVinci, Michelangeo, or Monet. Just because an artist has a recognizable style doesn't make him or her any less of a genius.

So Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese, Lucas, Ridley Scott, Tarantino, and Kubrick have all made movies that I would consider works of genius and unparalleled classics. But every one of them has also made some stinkers, and in the case of Scott and Coppola, neither of them have made a great movie in almost 30 years.

David Lean and Hitchcock were definitely film geniuses, though again, both of them made less than great movies. Kurosawa too.

And then you've got the Coen Brothers, who have made some absolute classics --- and some shockingly awful movies too.

So I like Nolan's films. I don't know that he's made a BAD movie yet. But he's only made one GREAT one --- so far.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 04:22 PM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Depends on how you define genius, I guess.

Take Spielberg for example. There's no doubt the guy has made some classic movies and (along with Lucas) invented the blockbuster movie. But lots of people have noted he tends to repeat themes, re-use the same type of camera tricks, etc. So all Spielberg movies tend to have a similar flavor. I don't disagree with any of that. But I would also say the same thing about Beethoeven, Mozart, Bach, DaVinci, Michelangeo, or Monet. Just because an artist has a recognizable style doesn't make him or her any less of a genius.

So Spielberg, Coppola, Scorsese, Lucas, Ridley Scott, Tarantino, and Kubrick have all made movies that I would consider works of genius and unparalleled classics. But every one of them has also made some stinkers, and in the case of Scott and Coppola, neither of them have made a great movie in almost 30 years.

David Lean and Hitchcock were definitely film geniuses, though again, both of them made less than great movies. Kurosawa too.

And then you've got the Coen Brothers, who have made some absolute classics --- and some shockingly awful movies too.

So I like Nolan's films. I don't know that he's made a BAD movie yet. But he's only made one GREAT one --- so far.
Your points have validity. I think Lucas is probably the weak link on this chain, because the guy has one huge, debilitating weakness when it comes to filmmaking: He can't work with humans. His only claim to fame (and I'm not pretending it didn't advance the industry by a quantum leap) is the concept of post-production dominating the result of a film.

Nolan, in my opinion, is a budding genius, in part because he's a complete filmmaker. He draws tremendous performances out of actors, mines the field of psychology for fascinating, thought-provoking themes, and has a knack for also putting together tremendous action sequences. Spielberg, for instance, is better at the 3rd one, but can't do all 3 as well as Nolan can. Coppola can put together fascinating, poetic themes and elicit riveting performances, but he makes terribly uneven films, and hasn't put together popcorn action that any of us can tolerate.

Scorsese's just top-notch in all areas. Nothing to say about him but "wow."

You don't think Gladiator was a great film? I'd say it's at the top half of "good".

Regardless, I almost all directors never make a truly "great" film. For Nolan to have done so in his 30s qualifies him for the genius club in my book.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,718,275 times
Reputation: 17188
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
Your points have validity. I think Lucas is probably the weak link on this chain, because the guy has one huge, debilitating weakness when it comes to filmmaking: He can't work with humans. His only claim to fame (and I'm not pretending it didn't advance the industry by a quantum leap) is the concept of post-production dominating the result of a film.
I disagree. Lucas gave us American Graffiti and Star Wars, which were both extremely human films. Lucas's problem is that he is a good director, a fantastic producer, and a terrible writer. He needs to hand his scripts to someone who knows what he or she is doing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
Nolan, in my opinion, is a budding genius, in part because he's a complete filmmaker. He draws tremendous performances out of actors, mines the field of psychology for fascinating, thought-provoking themes, and has a knack for also putting together tremendous action sequences.
I have to disagree with you there, too. I'm with you up until the "tremendous action sequences" bit. I thought the action sequences in Batman Begins were almost Michael Bay goofy. The chase scene in The Dark Knight was indeed great, but Nolan's "fight scenes" (fisticuffs) are confusing and uninteresting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
Scorsese's just top-notch in all areas. Nothing to say about him but "wow."
Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OreNative78 View Post
You don't think Gladiator was a great film? I'd say it's at the top half of "good".
I thought the first 20 minutes of Gladiator were fantastic. Everything after Richard Harris's character died was a train wreck of a movie.

The thing about Ridley Scott: Even when he makes a bad movie (and I think Gladiator was a bad movie), they always LOOK fantastic. Scott has a vision for scenery like no one else. You can take a Ridley Scott movie and hit "pause" on almost any scene and have a picture worthy of a painting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 8,245,548 times
Reputation: 4867
I agree that Nolan is not yet deserving of the label of "genius." Batman Begins was good but not great and The Dark Knight was amazing. But, then, you had Heath Ledger anchoring an exceptional cast and a very well-written script. In fact, TDK would have been similar in quality to BB had Heath Ledger not been in it; I also think he had a lot to do with Maggie Gyllenhaal being cast as Rachel, which was also a huge part of the reason why TDK was so good in comparison to BB, aside from the Joker being a better villian and Ledger playing a better villian.

One thing I am not looking forward to is Anne Hathaway as Catwoman; I'm not a fan of her work and I think her casting is similar to that of Katie Holmes as Rachel in BB (okay, maybe not that bad). Nolan seems to have trouble casting his leading ladies.

I do not expect Nolan's third Batman film to be as good as TDK; that would be impossible. However, I am hoping that it is better than BB, but I think that it is going to be the weakest of the three.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:33 PM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I agree that Nolan is not yet deserving of the label of "genius." Batman Begins was good but not great and The Dark Knight was amazing. But, then, you had Heath Ledger anchoring an exceptional cast and a very well-written script. In fact, TDK would have been similar in quality to BB had Heath Ledger not been in it; I also think he had a lot to do with Maggie Gyllenhaal being cast as Rachel, which was also a huge part of the reason why TDK was so good in comparison to BB, aside from the Joker being a better villian and Ledger playing a better villian.

One thing I am not looking forward to is Anne Hathaway as Catwoman; I'm not a fan of her work and I think her casting is similar to that of Katie Holmes as Rachel in BB (okay, maybe not that bad). Nolan seems to have trouble casting his leading ladies.

I do not expect Nolan's third Batman film to be as good as TDK; that would be impossible. However, I am hoping that it is better than BB, but I think that it is going to be the weakest of the three.
You gotta step outside of comic book films to see Nolan's genius. Memento was scary good. And Inception took an incredibly complex theme and made it suspenseful and human. That takes talent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:39 PM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I disagree. Lucas gave us American Graffiti and Star Wars, which were both extremely human films. Lucas's problem is that he is a good director, a fantastic producer, and a terrible writer. He needs to hand his scripts to someone who knows what he or she is doing.
I think Lucas got lucky with Harrison Ford. Every Star Wars movie he ever directed without Harrison Ford was unwatchable. In American Graffiti the main character was nostalgia (and Richard Dreyfuss bailed him out there, too).

Most of =the performances in his films were stilted, and cartoonish. I honestly think the guy just gives a vague set of instructions, tells an assistant to make the actors stand somewhere, and then cures the mistakes in post-production.

Quote:
I have to disagree with you there, too. I'm with you up until the "tremendous action sequences" bit. I thought the action sequences in Batman Begins were almost Michael Bay goofy. The chase scene in The Dark Knight was indeed great, but Nolan's "fight scenes" (fisticuffs) are confusing and uninteresting.
Wow, I don't see the Michael Bay comparison at all. Inception also showcased some terrific action (and effects). I really don't see a weakness with Nolan whatsoever. Even as long as his films are, they entertain throughout.

Quote:
The thing about Ridley Scott: Even when he makes a bad movie (and I think Gladiator was a bad movie), they always LOOK fantastic. Scott has a vision for scenery like no one else. You can take a Ridley Scott movie and hit "pause" on almost any scene and have a picture worthy of a painting.
I always wonder how much of that is just getting the right cinematographer, and how much is a director's eye. BUt I agree (except for claiming that Gladiator was bad. Come on!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-04-2011, 10:41 PM
 
223 posts, read 217,416 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I agree that Nolan is not yet deserving of the label of "genius." Batman Begins was good but not great and The Dark Knight was amazing. But, then, you had Heath Ledger anchoring an exceptional cast and a very well-written script. In fact, TDK would have been similar in quality to BB had Heath Ledger not been in it; I also think he had a lot to do with Maggie Gyllenhaal being cast as Rachel, which was also a huge part of the reason why TDK was so good in comparison to BB, aside from the Joker being a better villian and Ledger playing a better villian.

One thing I am not looking forward to is Anne Hathaway as Catwoman; I'm not a fan of her work and I think her casting is similar to that of Katie Holmes as Rachel in BB (okay, maybe not that bad). Nolan seems to have trouble casting his leading ladies.

I do not expect Nolan's third Batman film to be as good as TDK; that would be impossible. However, I am hoping that it is better than BB, but I think that it is going to be the weakest of the three.
Eh, couldn't disagree more. Anne Hathaway is Michael Jordan to Katie Holmes' Bill Cartwright. Hathaway is a talented actress, I don't anticipate her sucking.

You could have a point with Nolan miscasting women, however. Ellen Page was a major miscalculation in Inception. She's a great actress, but the role needed an older woman.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Entertainment and Arts > Movies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top