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Old 07-22-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Maine
8,286 posts, read 10,746,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
And, yes, I agree with the poster that noted the similarity to Nolan's Batman series: it seems like every new superhero movie is trying to ride on the coattails of Nolan's success by emphasizing "the beginning" of the superhero's life, as if such a storyline in and of itself equals a good film.
That isn't copying Nolan, and the "origin story" is hardly unique to Nolan. All superhero films have an origin story of some sort. Furthermore, Nolan's Batman Begins was a modest success (and only an average quality movie), but it was Nolan's The Dark Knight that totally blew the roof off superhero movies (because it was a fantastic movie).

And, yes, Maguire was getting too old for the part. Expecting the audience to believe an actor approaching middle age is still playing a down-on-his-luck college student is pushing the suspension of disbelief.

I don't see the reboot as being solely motivated to "capture the young audience," simply because the last 3 movies never lost the young audience. It's more a case of Raimi & crew had taken that storyline about as far it could go. Spidey 3 was such a disappointment to all concerned that the studio probably made a good call with a fresh start.

As for the new casting ... who knows? I've never seen this Garfield kid in anything, and I've only seen Emma Stone in one movie, which I liked.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
That isn't copying Nolan, and the "origin story" is hardly unique to Nolan. All superhero films have an origin story of some sort. Furthermore, Nolan's Batman Begins was a modest success (and only an average quality movie), but it was Nolan's The Dark Knight that totally blew the roof off superhero movies (because it was a fantastic movie).

And, yes, Maguire was getting too old for the part. Expecting the audience to believe an actor approaching middle age is still playing a down-on-his-luck college student is pushing the suspension of disbelief.

I don't see the reboot as being solely motivated to "capture the young audience," simply because the last 3 movies never lost the young audience. It's more a case of Raimi & crew had taken that storyline about as far it could go. Spidey 3 was such a disappointment to all concerned that the studio probably made a good call with a fresh start.

As for the new casting ... who knows? I've never seen this Garfield kid in anything, and I've only seen Emma Stone in one movie, which I liked.
I agree that Spidey 3 was terrible. However, I had thought that the character had evolved from a college student to a newspaper reporter, just as in the comic. The last films seemed to focus more on his r-ship with MJ rather than his career; I never noticed that Maguire was too old for the part, it seemed like a very natural evolution. Moreover, I actually think that Garfield looks too young to play the part; Peter Parker never looked that young in the comic.

Garfield has been around for awhile and has starred in some good, more independent films (Boy A and The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus). Like Stone, he is the "it" boy of the moment.

And while every superhero movie has a beginning, most of the more recent films have never focused on superhero "beginnings" until Nolan, and it is being copied/emphasized now b/c of his success. In fact, the trailer shows a scenario similar to that in Batman Begins in which Spidey's parents are killed. It then abruptly cuts to PP meeting MJ and being bitten, which we've already seen before.

I'm just not interested. The other franchise was good; I remember everyone raving about the first Spidey film. If they were going to remake the films, then I think that they should have waited; it's just too soon. And they so look like they are trying to copy Nolan not only in the story but also in the look of the film. Riding coattails...
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:28 PM
 
1,543 posts, read 1,520,578 times
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Spidey is the man from Never Let Me Go? Bad choice and I mean it. I have nothing against him, he is a good actor. But he should not be playing a comic book hero. Did you guys know that Emma Stone is in the prequel for The Thing? Yeah, she is being shown in too many movies but I have yet to see most of them.

Also Nolan sucks.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
7,273 posts, read 3,050,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
And while every superhero movie has a beginning, most of the more recent films have never focused on superhero "beginnings" until Nolan
Spiderman 1.

Quote:
In fact, the trailer shows a scenario similar to that in Batman Begins in which Spidey's parents are killed.
Which directly correlates with the Ultimate Spiderman comics, and has nothing to do with Batman Begins.

Quote:
It then abruptly cuts to PP meeting MJ and being bitten, which we've already seen before.
...
That wasn't Mary Jane.

In fact, Mary Jane pretty much has nothing to do with this movie.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasy Tokoro View Post
Spiderman 1.



Which directly correlates with the Ultimate Spiderman comics, and has nothing to do with Batman Begins.



That wasn't Mary Jane.

In fact, Mary Jane pretty much has nothing to do with this movie.
You're wrong on all counts. Spiderman 1 does not get into Peter Parker's beginnings (i.e. his parents, his father's scientific career and his parents' deaths) while Nolan's Batman Begins specifically addressed this storyline (and was the first to do so among modern superhero movies). Moreover, the first Spiderman movie follows the Ultimate Spiderman storyline to the letter, just without the beginning:

http://marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man_(Ultimate (broken link))

Furthermore, a Spiderman story without MJ?! She is a main character and an integral part of the series; it's stupid to leave her out, especially if the director is leaving her out to differentiate this version from the preceding version. Gwen Stacy doesn't appear until much later in the series, which makes me wonder if this is a reboot, revision, or Spiderman 4?!

And what made the first Spiderman movies so good was their originality. The trailer looks very similar to the Nolan series: dark, brooding, modern, gritty. The initial movies had some great special effects and were funny without being campy (like what Tim Burton did with his Batman series). In short, the original movies were, well, original. Just b/c Spidey 3 sucked didn't mean that the entire franchise needed to be revised.

Last edited by StarlaJane; 07-23-2011 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I actually think that Garfield looks too young to play the part; Peter Parker never looked that young in the comic.
As someone else has already pointed out, this film seems much more inspired by the Ultimate Spiderman book, where Peter is still in high school.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
And while every superhero movie has a beginning, most of the more recent films have never focused on superhero "beginnings" until Nolan
So you never saw Superman with Christopher Reeve, where the whole first half hour of the movie is devoted to the origin? Or the first Raimi Spiderman film, which preceded Batman Begins by 3 years?

Having the first film about a superhero focus on the origin isn't a Nolan invention. It's just part of the genre. Nolan did it well, no doubt. But he hardly invented it.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
As someone else has already pointed out, this film seems much more inspired by the Ultimate Spiderman book, where Peter is still in high school.




So you never saw Superman with Christopher Reeve, where the whole first half hour of the movie is devoted to the origin? Or the first Raimi Spiderman film, which preceded Batman Begins by 3 years?

Having the first film about a superhero focus on the origin isn't a Nolan invention. It's just part of the genre. Nolan did it well, no doubt. But he hardly invented it.
I'll agree that Nolan didn't develop the idea of "superhero origin"; as you pointed out, the Superman series began with an origins storyline.

However, Spiderman did not delve into PP's origins/childhood in the same way that this reboot supposedly will do--in the same way that BB delved into Bruce Wayne's childhood. Given that this newer version has completely scrapped the old storyline and style, and is now going back to not only an origins storyline as well as a dark and brooding style similar to that of Nolan's series is what makes me think of it as a copycat.

I will reiterate that the former Raimi films (with the exception of the third) were great, original and had a style all their own. This new version actually looks as if it were written and directed by Nolan, which is disappointing b/c Raimi did a very good job with the first two Spidey movies.

I just think that the whole idea of a reboot is ridiculous. I mean, if Raimi was that frustrated with the franchise, why not focus on creating a series of films focused around a new superhero rather than trying to rehash something that he had already treated so recently?

I will also note that the Ultimate Spiderman storyline specifically targets a younger, teen audience, which goes back to my initial post about the film simply being a rehash for a younger audience, which is exactly what it is.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Maine
8,286 posts, read 10,746,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
However, Spiderman did not delve into PP's origins/childhood in the same way that this reboot supposedly will do--in the same way that BB delved into Bruce Wayne's childhood.
Again, this is from Ultimate Spiderman, which preceded Nolanís films by a few years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
Given that this newer version has completely scrapped the old storyline and style, and is now going back to not only an origins storyline as well as a dark and brooding style similar to that of Nolan's series is what makes me think of it as a copycat.
I donít doubt that Nolanís films are influencing a lot of movies right now, simply because they were so good and successful. The Dark Knight, especially, was a masterpiece.

But really, that isnít Nolanís invention. Nolan did a great job, absolutely, but Nolan is standing in the shadow of Frank Miller, who brought Batman back into the shadows where he belonged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I just think that the whole idea of a reboot is ridiculous. I mean, if Raimi was that frustrated with the franchise, why not focus on creating a series of films focused around a new superhero rather than trying to rehash something that he had already treated so recently?
Well, I canít speak for Raimi, but I think his desire to go and do other things was a big reason for his departure from the franchise. And the actors made it pretty clear they werenít interested in doing Spidey 4 without Raimi. After several false starts, each attempt worse than the last, the studio had to face the choice of sinking more money into a process that wasnít working, or just starting over. Iím glad they started over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I will also note that the Ultimate Spiderman storyline specifically targets a younger, teen audience, which goes back to my initial post about the film simply being a rehash for a younger audience, which is exactly what it is.
No. The whole Ultimate line wasnít an attempt to capture a ďteenĒ audience so much as it was an attempt to update the Marvel universe to a more modern audience. It worked brilliantly for several years, although I gather that the Ultimate line is beginning to grow a little tired.

Spiderman being a teenager was hardly unique to the Ultimate line. Thatís classic Spiderman from the 1960s, from the very first issue. But the original comics progressed much faster, because that was just what they did back then. With Ultimate Spiderman, Bendis slowed down, because he is a disciple of Mamet and wanted to take the time to develop the character.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Earth
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I completely disagree with you that the Ultimate line was not an attempt to appeal to a "teen"/younger audience. Spidey in the Ultimate series is a teen, which is meant to appeal precisely to teen fans, in much the same way as Harry Potter. What you call "modern" actually means "younger."

And while you did not highlight ^^ my statement from my last post, I agreed that Nolan did not invent the idea of "beginnings." In fact, I never said that he did invent the concept. What I've said is that he was the first recent director who made a point of including a superhero "beginning" film and that, because it was an angle that was very successful, many superhero films are now emphasizing (*not just including*) the "beginning" of a superhero's life in hopes of the same success.

And I will reiterate that starting over is a big mistake. I almost feel robbed of a whole new series of superhero films that could have been done (and done well) instead of a reboot of material that has already been treated so recently, is now tired and is replicating the style of another series.

I do not doubt that the formula will work and that the films will probably make a lot of $$$, but I was hoping for a series of films that had some artistic merit and were not just trying to cash in. Hence, I see through the marketing strategies and I won't be one of the people supporting these stale, rebooted films.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Maine
8,286 posts, read 10,746,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I completely disagree with you that the Ultimate line was not an attempt to appeal to a "teen"/younger audience. Spidey in the Ultimate series is a teen, which is meant to appeal precisely to teen fans, in much the same way as Harry Potter. What you call "modern" actually means "younger."
Well, you're wrong. I've been reading the Ultimate line from the beginning, and all of the creators --- Bill Jemas, Joe Quesada, Brian Bendis, Mark Millar --- said from Day 1 that the intention of the Ultimate line was twofold:

1.) To bring the Marvel universe into the "modern" era. Lots of the classic Marvel heroes were born out of WWII, the Cold War, and the nuclear scare, which resonated with audiences of the '60s. Audiences of the 21st century don't relate as much. We live in an era of genetic engineering, terrorism, and Big Business seeming far more of a menace than the Reds. Were teens part of the target audience? You bet! But they were not the sole focus. The Ultimate line was not intended to be the "teen line." Spidey is a teen, yes. But Spidey has ALWAYS been a teen to begin with. That's just who Spider-Man is. Same with the X-Men (the other title that launched the Ultimate line). But the Ultimates ... all adults.

2.) A fresh start continuitywise. One of the great appeals of Marvel Comics over the ages was that they were all so connected, not only in one book from issue to issue, but between books as well. It makes for a great, coherent universe, but after 35 years of intense continuity, it made the stories inaccessible to new readers. You couldn't just "jump in" and know what was going on. So the Ultimate line "reset" the continuity. A fresh start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
What I've said is that he was the first recent director who made a point of including a superhero "beginning" film and that, because it was an angle that was very successful, many superhero films are now emphasizing (*not just including*) the "beginning" of a superhero's life in hopes of the same success.
Well, I still think you're wrong, though perhaps I'm just quibbling over "recent." But nearly every superhero movie ever made --- from the big and successful ones like Superman to the lesser known like The Crow --- make the origin the primary focus of the first movie. What Nolan did is that he did this REALLY well and made very successful films.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
... but I was hoping for a series of films that had some artistic merit and were not just trying to cash in. Hence, I see through the marketing strategies and I won't be one of the people supporting these stale, rebooted films.
You're basing the entire quality of the film off one trailer???

You may well be right. I hope not, but I honestly don't know. But making up your mind to hate a movie before you've even seen the movie ... why? You'd think it was the Smurfs or something.
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