INto the Wild by Sean Penn (mystery, message, character, romantic)

[Rhiannon29]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

well you have a right to your opinion, for certain, and we all can't like the same things....but here is my take....

Oh, no problem at at all. Everyone comes from a different point of view. I imagine I might like the book a little better since most books are better than their movie counterparts...And although I think the manner in which McCandless approached his experience with nature was foolish and naive, I think that his story was still very compelling, despite my thoughts on the movie.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

, I simply saw much more in the movie then meets the eye. that is why I enjoyed it so much. And I didn't mind his sister...I liked her and admired her, as she was the only one who seemed to understand him.

Ditto.
And I felt that way before I read the book. I've now read it, and still feel pretty much the same way about McCandless and his sad fate.
As for how Penn told his story, I still think he did a good job, as did all the actors, especially Hirsch. The sister's narration, for me, did not intrude--it felt more like a sort of punctuation to the story.
But it would be boring if we all felt the same way about movies or books.
Diversity of opinion is always welcome.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

well you have a right to your opinion, for certain, and we all can't like the same things....but here is my take....
I could relate because I was the same as him...always lurred by nature, the sea and oceans of the world...as I explained before, it's a yearning that can't be ignored...sort of like a knot in your stomach of wanting to live it, but all your instincts of conditioning by your parents tell you it's wrong, and sometimes holds you back...I've made some bad decissions in my life, due to my parents advice, on how I should proceed in life...they were wrong for me...all I wanted to do was travel, meet people, talk to them, find out what made them think and believe the way they do....but, most of all, I hated how society deems you different, if you don't think and believe like they do...or get married and have children...so I could probably relate more.

I enjoyed the movie as well, and the book. I had/have a similiar wonderlust for travel, and have been to Alaska several times and such far flung places as Swaziland and Nepal. But I did have some issues with it. One is an important fact that the book brought out, by a native alaskan. I could bring out the book and quote it, but I'll paraphrase it - The Chris McCandless types are so numerous in Alaska you can probably fall over them, it's almost like a club, young people trying to get away from it all. Most do there thing and usually move on, back to the lower 48. Chris's only difference is he died, in, really, an unglorious and rather an ignorant manner.

Now my main issue, which the book explores a tad bit more than the movie, is his almost selfish, self-abosorbed, and total disregard for the feelings of his parents (I still don't "get" the pain he got from his upbringing, a dysfunctional family? Boohoo). Actually, the movie does touch on the pain he causes for his parents, for Chris himself it was indifference, as shown when at one point a the lady at the camper asks him about his family and talks about his own son. But can you imagine the pain he brought to them, and to his sister as well, who apparantly he was very close to. It seems only at the end, when he does away with the "Supertramp" name and signs his real name, does he understand (at least that's what I can assume what happened in reality).

His death itself was pretty wasteful. Alaska or not, you have to almost WORK at dying of starvation. And as Alaska wilderness goes, he was far from what a normal Alaskan would call "wilderness". Their are indeed plenty of ways to die in Alaska. You die of exposure or the cold, you die of drowning, you die of bear attack, you die from falling off a cliff, you do NOT die of starvation unless you are totally inept, stupid, are incapacitated or snow bound (but it was summer in this case). In the wilderness, you need water (plentiful since he was near a stream), and shelter (he lucked out by finding the bus). Food is a luxury and there was plentiful game. Now I know both the movie and book went on the poison theory, but still, he knows he was only 20 miles from a road even if he didn't have a good map (another stupid decision). Guess how that bus got there? It was on a road, a long abandoned one, but a road.

[Dd714]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

do.

If I died tomorrow...and had the experiences he had, I'd be a happy person. I realize, when your young like that you believe time stands still and your invincible...but...

By the way, he had an incredibly painful and lonely death. Starvation is days of pain, with a few minutes of euphoria before you die. It's not a way I want to end my days.

This is one of his last messages as he was too weak to do much but scratch a sign on the bus door (as stated in the book but not in the movie):

"In God's name someone help me please"

Not too romantic of a death is it?

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Dd714

This is one of his last messages as he was too weak to do much but scratch a sign on the bus door (as stated in the book but not in the movie):

"In God's name someone help me please"

Originally Posted by Dd714

Chris's only difference is he died, in, really, an unglorious and rather an ignorant manner.

But can you imagine the pain he brought to them, and to his sister as well, who apparantly he was very close to. It seems only at the end, when he does away with the "Supertramp" name and signs his real name, does he understand (at least that's what I can assume what happened in reality).

His death itself was pretty wasteful.

Yes.
I think the guy, as educated as he was, did not have a whole lot of common sense. What he did have was high (but mindbogglingly unrealistic) ideals.
I have actually known other misguided people like Chris, though they did not die in their mid-20's as he did.
I myself wandered a lot at his age, did stupid stuff, I lived in places such as San Francisco's Tenderloin and hitchhiked lonely highways in Spain--but I lived to tell the tale. I might have been yet another statistic; lots of young, adventurous females end up dead--but I didn't. I was both lucky and had some sense of self-preservation.
Chris did die. And yeah, it was a wretched, lonely end.
I think that ultimately he understood what he'd given up. Maybe it took all that grinding pain of starvation for him to get it. I dunno.
However, when it comes to the nearby road, I thought Chris could only get to it if he could ford the river? And I thought the river, by the time he wanted to cross it, was an impassable, raging torrent? However, from what I remember from the book, if he had just walked further upstream, he would have found shallower channels, braided with land.
But whatever. Obviously, Chris put himself in harm's way, managed to survive the summer, and then it was too late.
What remains is the bus, the book, the movie.
I hope his family is able to retain some comfort by how their son's idealistic spirit, coupled with his story, whether as an inspiration or a cautionary tale, or both--touches so many.

[Rhiannon29]

Originally Posted by Dd714

I enjoyed the movie as well, and the book. I had/have a similiar wonderlust for travel, and have been to Alaska several times and such far flung places as Swaziland and Nepal. But I did have some issues with it. One is an important fact that the book brought out, by a native alaskan. I could bring out the book and quote it, but I'll paraphrase it - The Chris McCandless types are so numerous in Alaska you can probably fall over them, it's almost like a club, young people trying to get away from it all. Most do there thing and usually move on, back to the lower 48. Chris's only difference is he died, in, really, an unglorious and rather an ignorant manner.

Now my main issue, which the book explores a tad bit more than the movie, is his almost selfish, self-abosorbed, and total disregard for the feelings of his parents (I still don't "get" the pain he got from his upbringing, a dysfunctional family? Boohoo). Actually, the movie does touch on the pain he causes for his parents, for Chris himself it was indifference, as shown when at one point a the lady at the camper asks him about his family and talks about his own son. But can you imagine the pain he brought to them, and to his sister as well, who apparantly he was very close to. It seems only at the end, when he does away with the "Supertramp" name and signs his real name, does he understand (at least that's what I can assume what happened in reality).

His death itself was pretty wasteful. Alaska or not, you have to almost WORK at dying of starvation. And as Alaska wilderness goes, he was far from what a normal Alaskan would call "wilderness". Their are indeed plenty of ways to die in Alaska. You die of exposure or the cold, you die of drowning, you die of bear attack, you die from falling off a cliff, you do NOT die of starvation unless you are totally inept, stupid, are incapacitated or snow bound (but it was summer in this case). In the wilderness, you need water (plentiful since he was near a stream), and shelter (he lucked out by finding the bus). Food is a luxury and there was plentiful game. Now I know both the movie and book went on the poison theory, but still, he knows he was only 20 miles from a road even if he didn't have a good map (another stupid decision). Guess how that bus got there? It was on a road, a long abandoned one, but a road.

Yeah, this was an issue I had with the story behind the movie. I found it a little hard to sympathize with him because he seemed like he was exhibiting the very traits he loathed in his parents: selfish, arrogant, etc. And the abuse issue with his parents, I read, was made up for the movie (another reason for me to read the book). Someone correct me if I am wrong. But it was almost as if Penn had to justify his not letting his family know where he was, i.e., they were abusive drunks so they deserved to be worried to distraction about their only son. Almost everyone has an complaint about their upbringing, and his was no worse than anyone else's.

It saddens me greatly that if he had of planned his venture better, he could have been around to tell us about his journey and what he learned first hand.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Rhiannon29

Yeah, this was an issue I had with the story behind the movie. I found it a little hard to sympathize with him because he seemed like he was exhibiting the very traits he loathed in his parents: selfish, arrogant, etc And the abuse issue with his parents, I read, was made up for the movie (another reason for me to read the book). Someone correct me if I am wrong. But it was almost as if Penn had to justify his not letting his family know where he was, i.e., they were abusive drunks so they deserved to be worried to distraction about their only son. Almost everyone has an complaint about their upbringing, and his was no worse than anyone else's.

It saddens me greatly that if he had of planned his venture better, he could have been around to tell us about his journey and what he learned first hand.

I agree, Rhiannon, but you know how the movie world works.
Yes, he should have listened more to the advice given him, planned his adventure better--but youth can be so heedless.
As for Chris exhibiting the very traits of his parents, to me, he did that in real life, when he deliberately withheld the truth of his plans as they withheld the truth of their relationship(s). Children exhibiting the same troublesome traits as their progenitors is an old, sad story.

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

well you have a right to your opinion, for certain, and we all can't like the same things....but here is my take....
I could relate because I was the same as him...always lurred by nature, the sea and oceans of the world...as I explained before, it's a yearning that can't be ignored...sort of like a knot in your stomach of wanting to live it, but all your instincts of conditioning by your parents tell you it's wrong, and sometimes holds you back...I've made some bad decissions in my life, due to my parents advice, on how I should proceed in life...they were wrong for me...all I wanted to do was travel, meet people, talk to them, find out what made them think and believe the way they do....but, most of all, I hated how society deems you different, if you don't think and believe like they do...or get married and have children...so I could probably relate more.

I am also not an advocate of material things...I give stuff away constantly and my family cannot understand it. To them, there is always a price tag on things/stuff...it's just stuff, and if someone else will enjoy it....if it makes them happy, then, why not give it to them? I don't have collections or hold onto things with sentimental value...it's simply stuff.

Also, the lure of nature that was in me was like his as well, so, I can understand totally, that he wasn't trying to find himself, it was simply who, he wanted to be, and what he wanted to do.

If I died tomorrow...and had the experiences he had, I'd be a happy person. I realize, when your young like that you believe time stands still and your invincible...but...as you grow older you become more conditioned to fears that society instills.

I can also relate to him taking off the moment someone thought they could tell him how to live his life and what he was supposed to be....not fair...it has been done to me all my life and I'm at the point in my life that I'm down right sick of it. I know family means well...but if you don't do what they advise, they become annoyed...and it's not fair...and that is what I saw in him.

I thought it was a well done movie...and I thought Penn did a marvelous job. I don't know if I posted this before, but...I saw Penn and the actor that played Christopher being interviewed. Penn asked him while they were shooting if he ever did any white water rafting...the kid said no...but he did it...so that was really him going down the rapids.

I believe we are connected to all things...and I believe when we become overwhelmed by society's ideas of how we should think and feel, it destroys our balance, adds stress and hinders the well fair of our bodies, our health in general. It takes it's toll. We forget that, we don't own our children, and we've got to allow them their lives....and not expect them to live out our dreams that we didn't accomplish.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but hope you don't take offense, I simply saw much more in the movie then meets the eye. that is why I enjoyed it so much. And I didn't mind his sister...I liked her and admired her, as she was the only one who seemed to understand him.

Best regards and thanks for your post
Creme

If and when you read the book I hope you'll post.
I'd be interested in your take on the Chris in the book
versus the Chris in the movie.

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate

Just to make sure y'all know: Sean Penn does not have a performance in Into The Wild--he directed.
While I could not help but feel sympathy for the kid (a lot of us are idealistic in our early 20s), a lot of people think he was a pretentious jerk with way too much hubris.
I am going to read the book next week during my trip, but for anyone interested, this website is an attempt at the truth behind the Into the Wild story.
Into The Wild Debunked
Again, I can't help but feel sympathetic.
I made some stupid mistakes during my 20's, this kid paid for his with his life--but perhaps he is in a better place now.

Wow, that was a really interesting article.
Thanks for the link.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

Wow, that was a really interesting article.
Thanks for the link.

Actually, I think this article is much better. It even-handedly looks at both points of view, the Chris who was an idealistic seeker, and the greenhorn Chris who bumbled into a bad situation.
The Cult of Chris McCandless