how Hollywood alienates viewers (films, scenes, dvd, versus)

[Tom Lennox 70]

Peter Berg is the unlikely ruler of 'The Kingdom' - USATODAY.com

This article was about the new movie "The Kingdom" which takes place in Saudi Arabia and deals with FBI agents going there to investigate a suicide bombing but end up fighting against the dark forces of terror and jihadism. The director was afraid the movie was too "jingoistic" and actually was disturbed when a screening audience cheered during the battle scenes? Movies like Munich and Syriana are too sympathetic to the bad guys....yes, even Munich, which questions if the terrorists deserved to be assassinated. Of course they did.

Now I don't think Peter Berg is an exceptionally liberal director by Hollywood standards. At least he could make a movie where the enemy actually are Islamic terrorists instead of the usual ex-KGB agents or mercenaries. (The worst was actually the Jason Bourne series where the CIA itself are the bad guys!) But we are at war with terror right now. Back in the 80s there were a lot of movies like Rambo or Red Dawn where Americans fight evil communists. Those movies were supposed to be inspirational, and to promote patriotism. Now no movie since 9-11 has had Islamic bad guys except for Black Hawk Down and Tears of the Sun (though in this one you only know from one line that the rebels who launched the coup in Nigeria are Muslims). Oh yeah in Stealth, one of the terrorists the plane targets in the airstrike is from Saudi Arabia along with some North Koreans. The only real exception is the show "24" on TV which doesn't hesitate to show how evil our enemies are.

So Berg was afraid his movie would be too patriotic? To promote too much American pride? Pride in your country, especially in a time of war (I'm talking the war on terror with 9-11, NOT Iraq) is something you can never have enough of, not to mention too much. He only decided not to cut things from The Kingdom only after screening from a Muslim audience in London, a place where immigrants are notoriously unassimilated. Why?? Why do we care what a mostly Muslim audience in London thinks?

I think when Hollywood caters too much to political correctness it can alienate their main audience, which is the average American. How many Muslims are going to see the movie anyway? There's already a problem when most test audiences seem to be drawn from Los Angeles or New York. If they want to gauge the mood and preferences of the real America they should do screenings in Dallas, Kansas City, or St. Louis. Hollywood does not get most of its revenues from the Middle East, I can assure you that.

I think its about time there was a genuinely pro-American movie where we kick some jihadi butt either here or abroad. There is a Rambo IV and its going to be set in Myanmar, which given recent events is kind of relevant (though when they decided on the plto they had no idea the protests would happen.) They should have put it in Darfur/Sudan and have Rambo help the black Christians fight against the fanatical Arab government or better yet in Iran.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

The director was afraid the movie was too "jingoistic" and actually was disturbed when a screening audience cheered during the battle scenes?

From the article:
The film was shown in a working-class London neighborhood, and the sequence drew an ovation. Berg decided audiences were cheering a win over terrorism, not nationalism, and kept the scene.
Berg wonders whether the films have "been too preachy for their own good. We know what happened (on 9/11). People don't go to movies to be told that. They go to be taken on a ride."

Movies like Munich and Syriana are too sympathetic to the bad guys....yes, even Munich, which questions if the terrorists deserved to be assassinated. Of course they did.

I appreciated Bana's ambivalent character.
IMHO both of those movies were really good, although wading through Syriana was a bit murky at times.
But the entire situation is murky. It is about oil, modernists versus fundamentalists, money, power, and a whole lot of corruption.

Now I don't think Peter Berg is an exceptionally liberal director by Hollywood standards. At least he could make a movie where the enemy actually are Islamic terrorists instead of the usual ex-KGB agents or mercenaries. (The worst was actually the Jason Bourne series where the CIA itself are the bad guys!) But we are at war with terror right now.

The CIA has been up to all sorts of shenanigans for years.
Again, it is a complicated situation. I appreciate it when Hollywood or independent filmmakers take a subject like this and make the effort to avoid stereotypes.

So Berg was afraid his movie would be too patriotic? To promote too much American pride? Pride in your country, especially in a time of war (I'm talking the war on terror with 9-11, NOT Iraq) is something you can never have enough of, not to mention too much. He only decided not to cut things from The Kingdom only after screening from a Muslim audience in London, a place where immigrants are notoriously unassimilated. Why?? Why do we care what a mostly Muslim audience in London thinks?

From reading the article, it sounds to me like he didn't cut anything.

I think its about time there was a genuinely pro-American movie where we kick some jihadi butt either here or abroad. There is a Rambo IV and its going to be set in Myanmar, which given recent events is kind of relevant (though when they decided on the plto they had no idea the protests would happen.) They should have put it in Darfur/Sudan and have Rambo help the black Christians fight against the fanatical Arab government or better yet in Iran.

No doubt Hollywood alienates a lot of viewers.
My mood and preferences were neither improved nor gratified to see a trailer for a very stupid-looking Christmas movie (what were Vince Vaughn and Paul Giametti thinking?) in September.
I enjoy rousing, inspirational scenes as much as the next person, whether it is a war movie or a fantasy or both.
I love movies that depict American life (that would make a great movie thread.) I doubt that I would pay to see Rambo IV fighting either Islamic terrorists or Iranians.

[Tom Lennox 70]

I also love movies that depict American life. Actually I've always wanted to see Berg's earlier film "Friday Night Lights", about football in a small Texan town, which is practically what I think of as authentic America.

You might also like Cars (actually not limited to a kid audience and one of the best graphics ever) or The Sandlot.

I personally have a thing for patriotic movies. Especially things like The Patriot with Mel Gibson (though I have lost some respect for him due to his racist comments).

One more thing about The Kingdom si that the previews make it seem more patriotic and pro-American than the final product, which I personally have yet to see...but I know these things happen with previews. Disney's "Miracle" was advertised as a patriotic film and I went into it believing there would be a big emphasis on American pride but they actually go out of the way to stress it was just a hockey game, except a little thing in the end. Its manipulative how the people making the previews take scenes out of context.

Watch the scene from the preview and the movie where Mike Eruzione says to Herb Brooks "I play for the United States of America" and you'll know what I mean.

[HeleenieWeenie]

Well, a couple of things that irk me about Hollywood writers, directors, and major studio films? They forget about the 46 states inbetween N.Y. & L.A.
They all show the L.A. suburb lifestyle, or Compton. They show the gritty inner city hard tenement Bronx/Brooklyn etc. Or the uptown rich Live on Central Park Million Dollar apartment...Anyways, there are a bunch of us who dont care about what its like to live in NY or LA. eh? We're not X-ers, kids, or 20 yrs. olds that skate or get facelifts.
Thanks Hollywood for grinding out a bunch of fluff which with we cannot identify! Boo, for L.A.

[HeleenieWeenie]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

I also love movies that depict American life. Actually I've always wanted to see Berg's earlier film "Friday Night Lights", about football in a small Texan town, which is practically what I think of as authentic America.

You might also like Cars (actually not limited to a kid audience and one of the best graphics ever) or The Sandlot.

I personally have a thing for patriotic movies. Especially things like The Patriot with Mel Gibson (though I have lost some respect for him due to his racist comments).

One more thing about The Kingdom si that the previews make it seem more patriotic and pro-American than the final product, which I personally have yet to see...but I know these things happen with previews. Disney's "Miracle" was advertised as a patriotic film and I went into it believing there would be a big emphasis on American pride but they actually go out of the way to stress it was just a hockey game, except a little thing in the end. Its manipulative how the people making the previews take scenes out of context.

Watch the scene from the preview and the movie where Mike Eruzione says to Herb Brooks "I play for the United States of America" and you'll know what I mean.

Yes, I agree with you on the Friday Night lights, and flix like Hoosiers, and now most of the Independent films are showing about Jersey, small town life; I rent mostly from that genre.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

Movies like Munich and Syriana are too sympathetic to the bad guys....yes, even Munich, which questions if the terrorists deserved to be assassinated. Of course they did.

Er...huh?

Syriana never postulated any such thing. The themes of Syriana were that these misguided kids sometimes have reasons to become terrorists. They aren't just "born bad." It also showed that Western intervention in Middle Eastern countries -- especially in the cause of little more than $$$ -- is probably not a good idea.

Munich never questioned whether or not the terrorists deserved to be brought to justice. It questioned whether or not governments have the right to sanction covert murderers.

Munich was a good movie. My biggest problem with it was that I felt like I'd seen it before. HBO did the same story ages ago, called The Sword of Gideon. Also a good movie, and I remember it had one line in it that perfectly summed up the entire theme: "If all we care about is an eye for an eye, how long before the whole world is blind?"

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

But we are at war with terror right now.

How can we be at war with a tactic?

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

Back in the 80s there were a lot of movies like Rambo or Red Dawn where Americans fight evil communists. Those movies were supposed to be inspirational, and to promote patriotism.

Rambo was just silly. (Unlike the first film, First Blood, which was actually a good movie.)

Red Dawn was actually a movie explaining why we lost the Vietnam War.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

I think when Hollywood caters too much to political correctness it can alienate their main audience, which is the average American.

If by "Hollywood" you mean the studios (more more correctly the corporations who own the studios), the only thing they care about is making money. If you mean writers, directors, actors, etc. ... well, their views are all over the place. I don't know much about Peter Berg. (I liked The Rundown a lot.) Clooney (of Syriana) is definitely liberal. Spielberg (director of Munich) is actually pretty moderate on most issues. I'd hardly call him a liberal.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

How many Muslims are going to see the movie anyway?

Lots and lots. American movies are actually very popular in the Middle East. My step-brother totally loaded up on bootleg DVDs when he was in Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

There's already a problem when most test audiences seem to be drawn from Los Angeles or New York.

True. But that's because most movie studios are located in LA or New York. But then again, I'm one of the old fusties who thinks that test audiences are a bad idea in the first place.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

Hollywood does not get most of its revenues from the Middle East, I can assure you that.

Studios get very little money from actual ticket sales these days. The lion's share of movie profits come from the various licensing deals -- DVD sales, cable broadcast rights, product placement, etc.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

I think its about time there was a genuinely pro-American movie where we kick some jihadi butt either here or abroad. There is a Rambo IV and its going to be set in Myanmar, which given recent events is kind of relevant (though when they decided on the plto they had no idea the protests would happen.) They should have put it in Darfur/Sudan and have Rambo help the black Christians fight against the fanatical Arab government or better yet in Iran.

Or better yet: No more Rambo movies. Seriously, did the last two not torture us enough? Still, I will admit the last Rocky pic wasn't half bad.

[michelleleigh]

How about the unrealistic standred on beauty and that if you are a female and over the age of 30 You are not senn. Most women look loke they are no older than 30 in most movies its kinfd of creepy

[stlsteved]

Originally Posted by Mark S.

How can we be at war with a tactic?.

A point that is not driven home nearly enough.

Originally Posted by Mark S.

Red Dawn was actually a movie explaining why we lost the Vietnam War.

I am intrigued by your comment on Red Dawn - please elaborate - I have not heard this view on it and I love that movie.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by stlsteved

I am intrigued by your comment on Red Dawn - please elaborate - I have not heard this view on it and I love that movie.

Simple: superior firepower does not mean victory.
Rambo always wins because he is superior and he is superior because he is....Rambo.

[Mark S.]

Originally Posted by stlsteved

I am intrigued by your comment on Red Dawn - please elaborate - I have not heard this view on it and I love that movie.

Well, you have to remember that Red Dawn came out in the '80s, when lots and lots of people were still scratching their head and asking themselves, "How could the U.S. military get beaten by a bunch of kids in their pajamas?"

John Milius's Red Dawn, said: "This is how." It isn't about superior firepower or subduing the populace. In fact, the more you abuse a populace, the more they fight back. (A lesson we still haven't learned apparently.) G.K. Chesterton said it best: "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." People fighting for their homeland and family will fight to the death.