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Though at first glance, Fury may seem as if it’s just another World War II movie with a stellar cast (I mean, Brad Pitt, Shia Labeouf, Jon Bernthal, Logan Lerman, Michael Peña, and Scott Eastwood? Yes, please), don’t write it off as that just yet: While yes, the movie deals with the much-employed setting of World War II, it’s actually much more true-to-life than it seems — even if it’s not based on one singular story. From Street Kings writer/director David Ayer, Fury is actually based on a collection of true stories from real-life army veterans who spent their time during World War II in tanks, just like Pitt’s tank crew in the film.
I was particularly curious about their rules of engagement. There were a couple of times in the movie where Germans were shot execution style who were no longer fighting them. I was wondering if this went against the U.S.'s code of ethics or was it for hollywood.
I was particularly curious about their rules of engagement. There were a couple of times in the movie where Germans were shot execution style who were no longer fighting them. I was wondering if this went against the U.S.'s code of ethics or was it for hollywood.
In war, atrocities happen on both sides ... American soldiers are not angels.
I was particularly curious about their rules of engagement. There were a couple of times in the movie where Germans were shot execution style who were no longer fighting them. I was wondering if this went against the U.S.'s code of ethics or was it for hollywood.
It happened in both the European and Pacific theaters (and generally speaking, in many wars throughout history).
Beevor extensively quotes reports and memoirs of those who took part in the invasion, many of whom state that American, British and Canadian troops killed German POWs and wounded soldiers. They also reportedly used soldiers belonging to the German Wehrmacht or Waffen SS as human shields and forced them to walk through minefields.
For example, one recounts the tale of a private named Smith, who was fighting with the 79th US Infantry Division. Smith allegedly discovered a room full of wounded Germans in a fortification while he was drunk on Calvados, a local apple brandy. According to the official report: "Declaring to all and sundry that the only good German was a dead one, Smith made good Germans out of several of them before he could be stopped."
In another account, Staff Sergeant Lester Zick reportedly encountered an American soldier on a white horse who was herding 11 prisoners in front of him. He called out to Zick and his men and told them that the prisoners were all Poles, except for two Germans. Then, according to Zick, the soldier took out his pistol "and shot both of them in the back of the head. And we just stood there."
I was particularly curious about their rules of engagement. There were a couple of times in the movie where Germans were shot execution style who were no longer fighting them. I was wondering if this went against the U.S.'s code of ethics or was it for hollywood.
Bumping this up because a making of Fury documentary is showing on the Smithsonian network. Sure enough there are the armored force veterans telling the stories that no we didn't follow the rules and a special prejudice was taken with Waffen SS troops. It reminds me of just before I entered active duty PBS ran a series War, by Gwynn Dyer and from a historians perspective he said that pretty much no front line combat soldiers took prisoners during an attack. You only survived if there was a lull in combat and there was a formal surrender or you stayed down while being overrun and the follow up and reserve forces found you.
Question about the authenticity of the tank crews..
Why did the Americans stay exposed out of the tops of the turrets (?) Was it for improved range of vision, and/or was it a macho thing (?)
Was that an accurate, researched detail ? I think in the movie German tank commanders stayed concealed. I'm curious about the contrast in styles, if that's an accurate detail someone knows about (?)
In Saving Private Ryan, there were scenes of American soldiers shooting surrendering German soldiers ... so it's been depicted many times in movies.
They were Czech prisoners dressed as German soldiers. They're screaming "We are Czech! Don't shoot! We didn't kill anyone, we are Czech!" Really subtle detail that Czech speakers noticed first.
Question about the authenticity of the tank crews..
Why did the Americans stay exposed out of the tops of the turrets (?) Was it for improved range of vision, and/or was it a macho thing (?)
Was that an accurate, researched detail ? I think in the movie German tank commanders stayed concealed. I'm curious about the contrast in styles, if that's an accurate detail someone knows about (?)
Veteran M60A1 tank commander in the mid 1980s, probably the most updated US tank that was basically WWII technology, that also had post war passive night vision sights. This was before the next generation tanks of the M60A3 and M1 series with thermal sights and laser range finders came into service. Yes commanders did not button up for the increased visibility. Taking the chance of the CO being a casualty rather than an infantryman with a HEAT anti-rocket getting close and taking out the entire tank and crew, Like the kid with the Panzerfaust in that tree line when the flaming Lieutenant shot himself before he burned to death in the movie. Although by our training should artillery fire come in we were supposed to button up and put on gas mask as we assumed the Soviets would mix in poison gas while training. If we didn't the observer/controller of the exercise would kill the tank and crew.
If German crews faced the same dangers from rocket armed infantry men around them as Allied crews did with tanks that had poorer armor, and if they fired a lower velocity round which needed more of a gunners skill and range corrections and rather than firing a high velocity round at a greater range from defensive positions they probably would have been fighting from an open hatch also.
Besides a few USMC crews who took our old WWII tech level tank into combat in the Gulf War our combat test was in reading the experiences of IDF crews during the Yom Kippur war of 1973 where IDF tank commanders in their many models including M60s and the first generation SABOT rounds generally fought from a open hatch and had just about the highest casualty rate in the IDF, or so they told us at Fort Knox. With the improving thermal sight technology and stabilized turrets it became easier to depend upon the tank optics and stay buttoned up to control the tank and the extended combat teams for unit leaders. In many if not most cases you could see more than sticking your head out since because of our technological advantage we preferred to fight at night.
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