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That, or have her turn to the dark side. Seriously. She is dangerously close to Mary Sue territory, and Finn's a much better fit for the notion that the Force can choose anyone, but mastering it is immensely difficult.
Possibly related, I see that Max von Syndow is in VIII. A flashback of a bit character? Maybe, but much more likely: he wasn't actually killed, and he's not actually on the side of the Resistance. He's a villain, and a much better one than either Ren or Snoke (see Minority Report). So why would he allow the heroes to learn the location of Luke Skywalker? Because IT'S A TRAP!!! I want VIII to open with Rey standing in front of Luke, and a second later he's drawn his lightsaber and impaled her (maybe he's evil; maybe she is). Then, in the next hour, it's revealed that much of the Republic/Resistance has been infiltrated by the First Order. They consolidate power quickly (kill Leia et al. ala Julius Cesar), and at around the halfway mark, the only thing standing between the resurrected Empire and complete domination is one crack pilot and one apostate stormtrooper with inklings of the Force.
That, or have her turn to the dark side. Seriously. She is dangerously close to Mary Sue territory, and Finn's a much better fit for the notion that the Force can choose anyone, but mastering it is immensely difficult.
Possibly related, I see that Max von Syndow is in VIII. A flashback of a bit character? Maybe, but much more likely: he wasn't actually killed, and he's not actually on the side of the Resistance. He's a villain, and a much better one than either Ren or Snoke (see Minority Report). So why would he allow the heroes to learn the location of Luke Skywalker? Because IT'S A TRAP!!! I want VIII to open with Rey standing in front of Luke, and a second later he's drawn his lightsaber and impaled her (maybe he's evil; maybe she is). Then, in the next hour, it's revealed that much of the Republic/Resistance has been infiltrated by the First Order. They consolidate power quickly (kill Leia et al. ala Julius Cesar), and at around the halfway mark, the only thing standing between the resurrected Empire and complete domination is one crack pilot and one apostate stormtrooper with inklings of the Force.
Sounds too Winter Soldiery to me and guess what, Disney put that movie out already. I doubt they would use the same plot in two straight movies.
I don't see Rey as a Mary Sue, there's something about her that has some deeper meaning that they may know, might not but for sure she doesn't despite the visions of the force. One thing is for sure, Luke knows who she is and I hope in 18 months we do. That said, I don't see much coming from killing her other than playing into the hate of the Mary Sue fanboy scuttlebutt which can be handled by better protection of her character.
That, or have her turn to the dark side. Seriously. She is dangerously close to Mary Sue territory, and Finn's a much better fit for the notion that the Force can choose anyone, but mastering it is immensely difficult.
Possibly related, I see that Max von Syndow is in VIII. A flashback of a bit character? Maybe, but much more likely: he wasn't actually killed, and he's not actually on the side of the Resistance. He's a villain, and a much better one than either Ren or Snoke (see Minority Report). So why would he allow the heroes to learn the location of Luke Skywalker? Because IT'S A TRAP!!! I want VIII to open with Rey standing in front of Luke, and a second later he's drawn his lightsaber and impaled her (maybe he's evil; maybe she is). Then, in the next hour, it's revealed that much of the Republic/Resistance has been infiltrated by the First Order. They consolidate power quickly (kill Leia et al. ala Julius Cesar), and at around the halfway mark, the only thing standing between the resurrected Empire and complete domination is one crack pilot and one apostate stormtrooper with inklings of the Force.
The production authorities have already told us these stories are plotted for kids.
"Sounds too Winter Soldiery to me and guess what, Disney put that movie out already. I doubt they would use the same plot in two straight movies."
Really, the only elements that are the same are the existence of a conspiracy and [some] exploration of political intrigue, which was sorely lacking in Awakens (yes, they need to explain what the hell is going on with the Republic/Resistance/First Order). And at any rate, Winter Soldier was a much better movie, so it couldn't hurt.
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"I don't see Rey as a Mary Sue, there's something about her that has some deeper meaning that they may know, might not but for sure she doesn't despite the visions of the force. One thing is for sure, Luke knows who she is and I hope in 18 months we do. That said, I don't see much coming from killing her other than playing into the hate of the Mary Sue fanboy scuttlebutt which can be handled by better protection of her character."
Better protection of her character is the last thing she needs; it's flaws and struggle she's lacking (i.e., a Mary Sue). Which would be perfect for a villain in this context — as it stands, the protagonists are overpowered and the antagonists are underwhelming.
Really, the only elements that are the same are the existence of a conspiracy and [some] exploration of political intrigue, which was sorely lacking in Awakens (yes, they need to explain what the hell is going on with the Republic/Resistance/First Order). And at any rate, Winter Soldier was a much better movie, so it couldn't hurt.
You talked about infiltration of the Resistance by the First Order, what did you think HYDRA did to Shield in Winter Soldier? Man in the shadows kills a character to start off, check. Villains.infiltrate, check. Try to kill a bunch of people that would prevent them from order, check. Listen, I didn't have too much trouble with the kinda spots A New Hope sorry. I have a much easier time giving the break to a Star Wars movie that is 38 years old and as I stated, most kids who are younger than 20, never saw A New Hope, let alone The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi in theaters. Compare this to Winter Soldier, that movie will only be three years old and due to it being one of the best Marvel movies ever, should be fresh in people's minds. Remember, people complain skit Disney doing A New Hope, imagine the s***storm fan-boys will have when they realize Episode VIII "course corrected" and turned it into The Winter Soldier but in the Star Wars universe.
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Better protection of her character is the last thing she needs; it's flaws and struggle she's lacking (i.e., a Mary Sue). Which would be perfect for a villain in this context — as it stands, the protagonists are overpowered and the antagonists are underwhelming.
Rey is actually a popular character despite the Mary Sue talks. I do think character wise for her to go Sith, it would need a HUGE event. Han dying didn't seem to do that. Even though she seems to be one with the Force rather fast (remember there are theories of her having mental blocks which were shut off with that vision she had when she touched the Skywalker light saber,) she didn't seem to be in disagreement with the Jedi code at all. It would take a huge change to her to make her turn to the Sith, believable and not a jump scare that we later realize was dumb.
This is why I side with explain the character more and develop her. You know there is a mystery there waiting to be decoded and there is going to be Jedi training in Episode VIII, have it done there in different ways than they did in Empire and have her fail at things Luke needs her to do. That's all I ask.
This is why I side with explain the character more and develop her. You know there is a mystery there waiting to be decoded and there is going to be Jedi training in Episode VIII, have it done there in different ways than they did in Empire and have her fail at things Luke needs her to do. That's all I ask.
This is the point I'm making in noting that The Force Awakens is a movie written with the guarantee of sequels, a totally different proposition from a movie written without that guarantee. A New Hope and Return of the Jedi were written without guarantee of sequels and to "do it all" in one movie. The Force Awakens is more akin in that manner to The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey.
"You talked about infiltration of the Resistance by the First Order, what did you think HYDRA did to Shield in Winter Soldier? Man in the shadows kills a character to start off, check. Villains.infiltrate, check. Try to kill a bunch of people that would prevent them from order, check."
You're really stretching if you think that's a particularly close parallel. You just described about 100 movies ...
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"I do think character wise for her to go Sith, it would need a HUGE event."
My suggestion is that she's been a Sith all along, and the apprentice of von Sydow, who's actually the central antagonist. Would solve a lot of problems with respect to her preternatural abilities, as well as replace the poseur-esque First Order with more sinister and competent villains.
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"Even though she seems to be one with the Force rather fast (remember there are theories of her having mental blocks which were shut off with that vision she had when she touched the Skywalker light saber,) ..."
I have a really hard time believing that the elimination of "mental blocks" could allow someone with absolutely no training to defeat an enemy capable of freezing laser blasts.
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"You know there is a mystery there waiting to be decoded and there is going to be Jedi training in Episode VIII, have it done there in different ways than they did in Empire and have her fail at things Luke needs her to do. That's all I ask."
You're probably correct that that's what's going to happen, but suddenly removing a bunch of Rey's innate competence isn't really character development, it's more like a character revision.
I have a really hard time believing that the elimination of "mental blocks" could allow someone with absolutely no training to defeat an enemy capable of freezing laser blasts.
You're probably correct that that's what's going to happen, but suddenly removing a bunch of Rey's innate competence isn't really character development, it's more like a character revision.
Not if she was trained as a child but survived the attack on Luke's Jedi camp unknown to Aden, and her memory was wiped while she was hidden way on a distant planet for her own safety. That's the fan theory making the rounds and it fits perfectly.
"Not if she was trained as a child but survived the attack on Luke's Jedi camp unknown to Aden, and her memory was wiped while she was hidden way on a distant planet for her own safety. That's the fan theory making the rounds and it fits perfectly."
Still not buying it. Putting aside the fact that a memory wipe is pretty lame in this instance, she remembers being abandoned as a child. So what, her training was from age one to five? Do they give four year old padawans lightsabers to play with? Doesn't seem like that would be enough to defeat Ren.
Also, it's pretty cruel to abandon a small child on a desolate planet. So they didn't abandon her — someone was watching over her. Max von Sydow's character, in other words. A powerful force-wielder hidden on a desert planet and watched over by an old hermit, who's killed by a masked Sith lord in the first movie. Gee, where have I seen that before?!!! Yeah, if that turns out to be the case, I'm going to be incredibly pissed, because it means no one working on the movie has an original thought in his/her head. At that point, I could just skip out on seeing VIII altogether, opting instead to pop IV and V in my DVD player ...
Last edited by drishmael; 01-09-2016 at 12:28 PM..
You guys are making this harder than it needs to be. Keep in mind two important facts:
1. Ren was wounded. He'd just taken a bowcaster bolt in the gut. The fact that he is walking at all is pretty remarkable. But he sure isn't in peak fighting condition.
2. Rey did knew how to fight with a hand weapon. Maybe not a light saber, but we saw that she learned how to fight pretty well with a staff. So it's not like it was the first time she'd ever picked up a melee weapon in her life. She was already pretty good with one.
So you have a VERY wounded Sith apprentice fighting a well practiced brawler, and it ends in a draw. Why is that so hard to buy?
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Man in the shadows kills a character to start off, check. Villains.infiltrate, check. Try to kill a bunch of people that would prevent them from order, check. Listen, I didn't have too much trouble with the kinda spots A New Hope sorry. I have a much easier time giving the break to a Star Wars movie that is 38 years old and as I stated, most kids who are younger than 20, never saw A New Hope, let alone The Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi in theaters. Compare this to Winter Soldier, that movie will only be three years old and due to it being one of the best Marvel movies ever, should be fresh in people's minds. Remember, people complain skit Disney doing A New Hope, imagine the s***storm fan-boys will have when they realize Episode VIII "course corrected" and turned it into The Winter Soldier but in the Star Wars universe.
