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Old 07-21-2017, 08:10 AM
 
17,888 posts, read 9,831,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Could not possibly disagree more. Ares finally revealing himself is where the movie totally fell apart for me. I really enjoyed WW, but the climactic battle was just typical, seen-it-a-thousand times comic books silliness. The whole "remembering something someone said earlier in the movie" to give the hero a sudden surge of strength has not only been done a thousand times, it has seldom been done well --- and made no sense at all in this movie.

This movie is a huge hit --- and rightly so --- because it did so much else right. Beautifully right! But the end fight is probably the film's single biggest weakness.

Future filmmakers in this genre would do themselves a big favor if they would remember that the final confrontation between hero and villain is NOT about who is stronger. Just keep punching till the strongest one is the last one standing. Yawn. It needs to be about the emotional conflict between the hero and the villain, the hero's inner fortitude that wins the day. The hero's final victory shouldn't be just about punching the bad guy down, but about defeating his or her own inner demons. The hero's REAL struggle is with himself or herself.
I agree for the same reasons that the end battle was the weakest part of WW (and something Spider-man did right).


I think, though, that the end battle was about WW having to meet and defeat an inner obstacle. In her case, it was a matter of having one life-supporting belief fail and having to come up with another in the heat of battle.


She'd lived and based her entire life and being on one particular belief: Defeat Ares and save the world. Then she was suddenly faced with the truth that all that was false, and thus she was suddenly faced with her greatest foe and no longer had any reason to fight, any reason even to live.


I think they should have done that better in some way. They should have shown her in that moment more susceptible to Are's temptations, then more susceptible to just accepting defeat.


Unfortunately, the director did fall back to just letting it be mostly a slug-fest. But the movie did do so many other things right that it had enough emotional momentum to ride through to the conclusion.
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I think, though, that the end battle was about WW having to meet and defeat an inner obstacle. In her case, it was a matter of having one life-supporting belief fail and having to come up with another in the heat of battle.

She'd lived and based her entire life and being on one particular belief: Defeat Ares and save the world. Then she was suddenly faced with the truth that all that was false, and thus she was suddenly faced with her greatest foe and no longer had any reason to fight, any reason even to live.

I think they should have done that better in some way. They should have shown her in that moment more susceptible to Are's temptations, then more susceptible to just accepting defeat.

Unfortunately, the director did fall back to just letting it be mostly a slug-fest. But the movie did do so many other things right that it had enough emotional momentum to ride through to the conclusion.
All true.

I need to see it again. Maybe this was better answered than I remember, but there was a central part of her mission and character that never made sense to me: Diana was to be champion of Love and Understanding. But how does she go about that? By kickin' ass. Her moral center just seemed very blurry to me.

It kind of reminded me of Billy Jack. "I'm gonna teach you people peace, love, and understanding if I have to kick every ass in town!"

I kept asking myself: Okay, what exactly does Diana mean by "Love?" Happy feelings? Sentiment? Physical attraction? Because somewhere there is a disconnect between what she's saying and what she's doing.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:18 AM
 
17,888 posts, read 9,831,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
All true.

I need to see it again. Maybe this was better answered than I remember, but there was a central part of her mission and character that never made sense to me: Diana was to be champion of Love and Understanding. But how does she go about that? By kickin' ass. Her moral center just seemed very blurry to me.

It kind of reminded me of Billy Jack. "I'm gonna teach you people peace, love, and understanding if I have to kick every ass in town!"

I kept asking myself: Okay, what exactly does Diana mean by "Love?" Happy feelings? Sentiment? Physical attraction? Because somewhere there is a disconnect between what she's saying and what she's doing.
I'd say that her foundational concept was that humans left to themselves would be peaceful, loving, and understanding--as Zeus created and intended them--but that Ares was personally and solely the cause of all hatred and war.


Thus: Eliminate Ares and all will be well.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:08 AM
 
5,590 posts, read 2,427,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
I have two words for any Wonder Woman reboot(movie or TV):


LYNDA



CARTER
Lynda will be in the sequel.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:20 AM
 
5,590 posts, read 2,427,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I need to see it again. Maybe this was better answered than I remember, but there was a central part of her mission and character that never made sense to me: Diana was to be champion of Love and Understanding. But how does she go about that? By kickin' ass. Her moral center just seemed very blurry to me.
Her benevolence was why she was wanted to take Ares down. She thought killing him would halt the rampant bloodshed. Then she got a double whammy reality check: who she thought was Ares (Ludendorff) was not Ares, and while the real Ares was behind the warring, he wasn't a military warlord, but a puppet master.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:26 AM
 
Location: not where you are
7,920 posts, read 7,265,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Taylor View Post
Also, this film has yielded some great quotes:

Steve to Diana: Stand back... Or maybe not.

Sameer: I am both frightened...and aroused.

Diana: Would you say you're a typical example of your sex?

Steve: I would say I'm above average.
This was a moment I found entertaining. Steve character made things a bit more bearable over all except for the fact that they made him way to unbelievably forward thinking, for a soldier in that time period when it came to WW. I'm sure such a rare breed existed, but, I can believe in the blocking of flying bullets with those arm cuffs WW had on first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
That was actually the one scene in the movie where even my 11 year old daughter rolled her eyes and said, "Oh, Puh-leeze."

This not so much entertaining; I'm not an 11 year old and I related, it was a gag worthy moment for sure.
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Her benevolence was why she was wanted to take Ares down. She thought killing him would halt the rampant bloodshed. Then she got a double whammy reality check: who she thought was Ares (Ludendorff) was not Ares, and while the real Ares was behind the warring, he wasn't a military warlord, but a puppet master.
Yeah, I know. But the mission she was preaching was "Love." But that Love was never defined.

"People ought to love one another." "Why are you treating each other so badly?" "End this violence!" "Now let me show you how by killing fifty German soldiers before embarking on my assassination attempt."

I do think there is an argument to be made that force is sometimes necessary to bring about peace. But the movie never made that argument. We just got wishy-washy never defined platitudes about "Love."
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Cleaning CAT VOMIT out of radiators
1,893 posts, read 625,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Lynda will be in the sequel.
No thanks! I'd rather see her in the title role - on MeTV or Nick.

There's no new stuff coming out in movies, TV or music anyway. All sequels and remakes.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:03 PM
 
5,590 posts, read 2,427,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
No thanks! I'd rather see her in the title role - on MeTV or Nick.

There's no new stuff coming out in movies, TV or music anyway. All sequels and remakes.
The new Wonder Woman movie wasn't a remake.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:42 PM
 
5,590 posts, read 2,427,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Yeah, I know. But the mission she was preaching was "Love." But that Love was never defined.

"People ought to love one another." "Why are you treating each other so badly?" "End this violence!" "Now let me show you how by killing fifty German soldiers before embarking on my assassination attempt."

I do think there is an argument to be made that force is sometimes necessary to bring about peace. But the movie never made that argument. We just got wishy-washy never defined platitudes about "Love."
The last time we got a CBM with no punching, it was called Superman Returns and it sucked.

I want to see Wonder Woman kick some butt. Gandhi is filed under G.
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