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Old 08-21-2017, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Another thing to consider: 50 years ago, no movies were selling 3 million tickets in China or India. The fact that movies from 30+ years ago are still even contenders against today's movies is pretty impressive.
I'd forgotten that angle. Yow.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I'd forgotten that angle. Yow.
But to flip the coin:

Movies 30-50 years ago weren't competing with 300+ cable channels, the Internet, and movie piracy. If you wanted to go see Gone with the Wind of JAWS or Rocky you actually had to go to the movie and buy a ticket. Those days are gone forever.

So in the end, comparing ticket sales or profits to determine a successful movie is fun but rather meaningless in the end. Was it a good movie? Were you moved by it? Are you eager to see it again? Will people still be watching this movie thirty years from now and enjoying it? If so, then it is a successful movie. Outside of the studio shareholders meeting, who cares how much money it made?

That's why I think movies like The Matrix, The Fast and the Furious flicks, Batman vs. Superman, Suicide Squad, the Transformers flicks, Gladiator, Road House, and Tim Burton's last ten movies may be popular for a while and turn an impressive profit. But thirty years from now they will be largely forgotten.

But fifty years from now, I'm pretty sure people are still going to be watching The Godfather, Lawrence of Arabia, STAR WARS, Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Halloween, Goodfellas, Rocky, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and JAWS (not matter how fake the shark looks).
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:35 AM
 
17,907 posts, read 9,836,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
But to flip the coin:

Movies 30-50 years ago weren't competing with 300+ cable channels, the Internet, and movie piracy. If you wanted to go see Gone with the Wind of JAWS or Rocky you actually had to go to the movie and buy a ticket. Those days are gone forever.

So in the end, comparing ticket sales or profits to determine a successful movie is fun but rather meaningless in the end. Was it a good movie? Were you moved by it? Are you eager to see it again? Will people still be watching this movie thirty years from now and enjoying it? If so, then it is a successful movie. Outside of the studio shareholders meeting, who cares how much money it made?

That's why I think movies like The Matrix, The Fast and the Furious flicks, Batman vs. Superman, Suicide Squad, the Transformers flicks, Gladiator, Road House, and Tim Burton's last ten movies may be popular for a while and turn an impressive profit. But thirty years from now they will be largely forgotten.

But fifty years from now, I'm pretty sure people are still going to be watching The Godfather, Lawrence of Arabia, STAR WARS, Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, Halloween, Goodfellas, Rocky, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and JAWS (not matter how fake the shark looks).

I think I'd include the original Matrix in that list.


Also Wonder Woman.


There are some smaller films that ought to be there but, alas, may not be, such as "To Kill a Mockingbird," "Searching for Bobby Fisher," and "The Princess Bride."
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I think I'd include the original Matrix in that list.
All style, no substance. And even the style was ripped off from better movies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Also Wonder Woman.
Maybe. Time will tell.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
There are some smaller films that ought to be there but, alas, may not be, such as "To Kill a Mockingbird," "Searching for Bobby Fisher," and "The Princess Bride."
Agreed. All great movies.

And The Princess Bride is a great example for this discussion. Did you know it was a box office flop? It totally tanked in its theatrical run. So by the measure that most people judge a movie "successful" these days, The Princess Bride was a failure. But we know otherwise. Same thing with Blade Runner. They are now rightly considered classics.

The Princess Bride: the flop that became a classic of the VHS era | BFI
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Old 08-25-2017, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Maine
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James Cameron, who gave us some of the best onscreen female heroes of all time in Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, says Wonder Woman is a "step backward" for women on film:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/201...film_b-gdnfilm

Quote:
“All of the self-congratulatory back-patting Hollywood’s been doing over Wonder Woman has been so misguided. She’s an objectified icon, and it’s just male Hollywood doing the same old thing! I’m not saying I didn’t like the movie but, to me, it’s a step backwards. Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon. She was strong, she was troubled, she was a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the audience through pure grit. And to me, [the benefit of characters like Sarah] is so obvious. I mean, half the audience is female!”

And Wonder Woman director Patty Jenkins responds:

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Old 08-25-2017, 06:31 AM
 
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Wonder Woman is a character type similar to Thor.
Sarah Conner is a character type similar to John McClane.


Cameron is smart enough to know that; he is just kvetching for publicity.
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Cameron was just being an ass. WW trod into areas played until now by male super-heroes, and did so well. That messes with the standard shortcut iconography used in film, just as much as if she had worn a black hat and rode a black horse. If there is a "misguided" aspect, it is the continuing glorification of warrior culture that pervades action film, as opposed to "smart" heroes, like in "Jumping Jack Flash" (which did have problems, but showed that violence wasn't always needed to entertain the testosterone driven teens).
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Cameron was just being an ass. WW trod into areas played until now by male super-heroes, and did so well. That messes with the standard shortcut iconography used in film, just as much as if she had worn a black hat and rode a black horse.
I dunno. I think both Cameron and Jenkins are making fair points.

If anyone thinks that a big part of the reason WW was such a huge hit is because Gal Gadot is stunningly gorgeous, I have a bridge to sell you. Just scroll back through this discussion and have a look at some of the photos others have posted of Gadot. Sex appeal was part of this movie's success, no doubt. So is that a victory for sisterhood? I don't think so. Cameron's got a point.

But Jenkins's response is also correct. Can beautiful women not also be strong and decisive and heroic? Must feminism exterminate all appreciation of beauty to remain pure? Must all feminist heroes be dark and gritty and damaged? Nope.

So I think they're both making valid points. Just please don't insist on making either The Point.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:32 AM
 
17,907 posts, read 9,836,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I dunno. I think both Cameron and Jenkins are making fair points.

If anyone thinks that a big part of the reason WW was such a huge hit is because Gal Gadot is stunningly gorgeous, I have a bridge to sell you. Just scroll back through this discussion and have a look at some of the photos others have posted of Gadot. Sex appeal was part of this movie's success, no doubt. So is that a victory for sisterhood? I don't think so. Cameron's got a point.

But Jenkins's response is also correct. Can beautiful women not also be strong and decisive and heroic? Must feminism exterminate all appreciation of beauty to remain pure? Must all feminist heroes be dark and gritty and damaged? Nope.

So I think they're both making valid points. Just please don't insist on making either The Point.

No, Cameron does not have a point, because he also directed Avatar and he knows Jenkins also directed "Monster."


He is just being an ass.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:25 AM
 
5,593 posts, read 2,429,349 times
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Patty slapped down JamCam's overrated arse!
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