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Finally finished it last night. It was a forced effort. I didn't hate it. But I didn't really like it much either. I saw the extended director's cut on DVD.
There were elements of the movie I really liked: cinematography was really outstanding in scenes that weren't exploding or on fire. Affleck made a great Bruce Wayne. In fact, all the cast except for Lex was really excellent. And I can't really blame Eisenberg too much. He's an actor, not a writer.
There were elements I loved: Wonder Woman! And the best onscreen Alfred yet. Gadot and Irons were absolutely outstanding.
But far too much I hated. Batman and Superman were both remorseless killers. Martha Kent turning in to Ayn Rand. Lex Luthor was the single most annoying movie character since Jar Jar Binks. Some REALLY bad dialogue in some pivotal scenes. An utter lack of coherent narrative. Plot advancement by characters being stupid. And the only thing Zack Snyder loves more than explosions are slow motion and dream sequences --- or better yet, dream sequences in slow motion; followed by an explosion.
Mark, keep in mind: The "Knightmare" sequence is not a dream. (That's why you see Flash, and that's why paperwork is flying.)
"If you have to explain a joke, then it isn't funny!" --- The Joker
"If you have to explain a scene, then the director failed." --- Me
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
I figured you'd love the warehouse fight. (Better fight choreography than any other Batman film, and most CBMs.)
It was a very well choreographed fight scene. And definitely the best in any Batflick so far. Nolan, for all his many great strengths as a director, is HORRIBLE at fight scenes.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
When does Superman kill?
The first ten minutes of the movie are Superman and Zod killing hundreds (maybe even thousands) of people. Then when he is saving Lois, he puts a guy through a wall at the speed of sound. Now, one could perhaps say that it was all in self-defense and that aside from Zod Superman didn't purposefully kill anyone. Not sure I'd buy it, but I could see the argument being made. But even if that were true, not once does Superman express any remorse. No apology. In fact, he keeps justifying it. "Hey, a super man's gotta do what a Superman's gotta do. Might makes right."
I lost count of the number of people Batman killed.
"If you have to explain a scene, then the director failed." --- Me
"If I don't get it, it's not my fault." — Mark S.
(You realize that unless somebody watches a certain Blade Runner cut, they don't realize Deckard is a replicant...right?)
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
The first ten minutes of the movie are Superman and Zod killing hundreds (maybe even thousands) of people.
Reprise of the end of Man of Steel. Collateral damage, yes. Superman intentionally killing? Nobody except Zod (also from Man of Steel).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
Then when he is saving Lois, he puts a guy through a wall at the speed of sound.
He didn't kill him, though. Visualize Superman's fists pointed directly forward. That's how he takes out the wall. He apprehended the guy at superspeed because he couldn't use his heat vision. It just looks incredible because that's how good our graphics are in this day and age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
I lost count of the number of people Batman killed.
(You realize that unless somebody watches a certain Blade Runner cut, they don't realize Deckard is a replicant...right?)
That's a stupid addition of Ridley Scott that he pulled out of his bottom in later years. Scott is the best visual director of his generation, but the man has no story sense, and even he admitted he didn't understand BLADE RUNNER when he first made it. The whole "Deckard is a replicant" is a gimmick that he came up with in later years. The screenwriters have said it's BS. Harrison Ford said it's BS and he never played it that way. Other cast members say it is BS. And as someone who names BLADE RUNNER his favorite movie, I say it is BS. Making Deckard a replicant destroys the otherwise brilliant and moving moral center of the movie. Shame on Ridley Scott.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Reprise of the end of Man of Steel. Collateral damage, yes. Superman intentionally killing? Nobody except Zod (also from Man of Steel).
Did he once express any remorse at all? Just once? Maybe even offer a public apology? Did he try to lead the fight out of the city? Maybe even into space (like with Doomsday)? Nope. Superman's gotta do what Superman's gotta do. Them's the breaks.
I know someone who caused a really severe traffic accident. The other guy didn't die, but he was in the hospital for weeks and will never fully recover. It was a total accident. Not my friend's fault at all. But it still seriously messed him up for a long time.
The death of thousands? Doesn't bother Kal El in the least.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
He didn't kill him, though.
And professional wrestling is real. And that helicopter that the A-Team shot out of the sky, hit the mountain, then burst into flame? Yeah, those people all survived too.
That's a stupid addition of Ridley Scott that he pulled out of his bottom in later years. Scott is the best visual director of his generation, but the man has no story sense, and even he admitted he didn't understand BLADE RUNNER when he first made it. The whole "Deckard is a replicant" is a gimmick that he came up with in later years. The screenwriters have said it's BS. Harrison Ford said it's BS and he never played it that way. Other cast members say it is BS. And as someone who names BLADE RUNNER his favorite movie, I say it is BS. Making Deckard a replicant destroys the otherwise brilliant and moving moral center of the movie. Shame on Ridley Scott.
When I first watched it, or on subsequent viewings, I never thought Deckard was. Many, many years later, the cut with the unicorn scene comes out and it causes a stir. Hence, Deckard is a replicant! Or, he is IF you choose to acknowledge that cut and/or that scene. It's up to the viewer, I guess.
Btw, Harrison hated making that movie (due to how anal Ridley can be).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S.
Did he once express any remorse at all? Just once?
Somebody needs to watch the end of that battle with Zod again.
When I first watched it, or on subsequent viewings,
Because he isn't. Except in Ridley Scott's addled brain.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
I'm convinced you hate all non-MCU CBMs.
Not at all. I liked Batman Begins. It was okay. I enjoyed The Dark Knight very, very much. I love many of the animated DC movies. Really, really love. And if you leave Marvel and DC out of the equation...
I loved Shyamalan's UNBREAKABLE. Pixar's THE INCREDIBLES is one of my favorite movies. I liked both HELLBOY movies tremendously. The old SWAMP THING flick from the '80s? One of the greatest bad movies ever made. And I even liked THE ROCKETEER. Quite a lot actually.
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