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Old 11-14-2016, 01:59 PM
 
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The philosophical question it ends with is a tough one. Not sure what I would choose.
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Old 11-14-2016, 05:02 PM
 
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Two other issues being discussed:

1. Why did General Shang comply with Louise in her vision/dream? We know that Shang was having some success deciphering the Heptapod language himself. Maybe he was also having incomprehensible glimpses of the future in which Louise appeared--perhaps the same glimpse, the same moment she realized in the future she needed information from him for her present, he realized he had to give her information in the future that she would then give him in their present.

2. Was it wrong for Louise to bear a child she knew would die young? I think that if we are seeing time in totality, we would realize that everyone dies and almost nobody dies fun. A long crappy life is not superior to a short happy life. Louise could know that the time her daughter lived would be a happy time worth living...which is more than most parents can know. So I don't think there is a moral failure at all.
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Old 11-14-2016, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
4,883 posts, read 2,417,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Why did General Shang comply with Louise in her vision/dream? We know that Shang was having some success deciphering the Heptapod language himself. Maybe he was also having incomprehensible glimpses of the future in which Louise appeared--perhaps the same glimpse, the same moment she realized in the future she needed information from him for her present, he realized he had to give her information in the future that she would then give him in their present.
This sort of thing is a reason I want to see the movie a second time. I am sure there are nuances in the film I just didn't catch on the first viewing. General Shang's actions at the end of the movie are definitely one of them.

Quote:
Was it wrong for Louise to bear a child she knew would die young? I think that if we are seeing time in totality, we would realize that everyone dies and almost nobody dies fun. A long crappy life is not superior to a short happy life. Louise could know that the time her daughter lived would be a happy time worth living...which is more than most parents can know. So I don't think there is a moral failure at all.
I agree. And not just as far as the conception of her daughter goes; the same can be said of agreeing to marry Ian despite knowing the two of them would later divorce. Focusing on just the end (or the beginning) of a relationship isn't something I think a person would could see the entirety of her life at once would do.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Henderson, NV, U.S.A.
8,653 posts, read 4,756,960 times
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Spoiler
You can't pick and choose an outcome or action to follow or change. The end result will only happen if everything else happened as planned before it. She knew, so with knowing comes surrender of her free will, to achieve the desired outcome.
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Old 11-15-2016, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oeccscclhjhn View Post
Spoiler
You can't pick and choose an outcome or action to follow or change. The end result will only happen if everything else happened as planned before it. She knew, so with knowing comes surrender of her free will, to achieve the desired outcome.
Spoiler
There is a choice, though. Just not one of action. The choice the heptapods have, and that our protagonist has once she has learned Heptapod B, is whether or not to freely accept the way things were/are/will be, or to futilely rail against them (like those people we all know who are endlessly complaining about past events in their life that cannot be changed). You don't get to choose the steps you'll take in the Dance of Time, but you DO get to choose how you dance those steps: in joy, in acceptance, in resignation, or in anger.


This is a wonderful discussion! Hope more people see the movie and stop by to add their thoughts.
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
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I heard it was a lot like Contact the build up wasn't worth the wait at the end. The cast is awesome but might wait for it to hit DVD.
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Old 11-15-2016, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
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Really, really good. Amy Adams is underrated.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:11 PM
 
Location: The Great West
1,971 posts, read 1,653,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oeccscclhjhn View Post
Spoiler
You can't pick and choose an outcome or action to follow or change. The end result will only happen if everything else happened as planned before it. She knew, so with knowing comes surrender of her free will, to achieve the desired outcome.
What I get from this is that this story is deterministic, that is to say, free will doesn't really exist. I've always liked that as a theme and here I found it thought-provoking (haven't read the story yet).

To answer, would I want this...you know, I am not sure I would want to know that language and be able to see everything. The one super-powered being in the graphic novel Watchmen had this ability, and it made him lonely and detached from people.

Spoiler
I felt that Louise, in seeing the totality of her life, also keenly felt the love she had for her daughter, and if there was a decision made at all (I don't think there was, but hypothetically), then it was to have the child and love her before she died. I think Ian left Louise because she ended up telling him their daughter would die and he couldn't handle it, and probably felt betrayed too since she knew about this before they even really got together.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:28 PM
 
213 posts, read 105,671 times
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First "real" movie I have seen in theaters in a long time, and boy was it refreshing. I usually just see the latest Star Wars or Superhero flick, but those don't really feel like movies to me any more, just a bunch of exciting but forgettable, colorful CGI stuff flying across the screen at record pace.

I have a lot of things i want to say about this movie but right now my thoughts are to jumbled. My most burning question is this:

If the Aliens can see the future already why do they need the humans help?
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterPan666 View Post
If the Aliens can see the future already why do they need the humans help?
We're not told how humanity is going to help the aliens, only that we will.

(Remember, the aliens can SEE the future, but they cannot change it. What is going to happen, is going to happen.)
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