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Old 02-05-2017, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
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Originally Posted by William Taylor View Post
Very nice post and video, Suzy.
Thank you!

Katherine Johnson is still sharp at age 97 - and still married to LTC James A.Johnson, ret., whom she wed in 1959.
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Old 02-06-2017, 10:10 AM
 
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Just saw it and I find it enjoyable, though not particularly groundbreaking.

I'm glad that this film was made so that more people would be familiar with this part of history, American or abroad. I'm not American and I knew nothing about the space race and I didn't know anything about the Jim Crow Laws either, I was completely horrified by the way these women were treated by those *******s. It was hard to watch with all those "colored" signs, that's just ridiculous. I can't even @ the library scene, and that judge saying "only night classes" as if it was some kind of charity. Unbelievable.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Thank you!

Katherine Johnson is still sharp at age 97 - and still married to LTC James A.Johnson, ret., whom she wed in 1959.
Colonel Johnson's story did spike my interest in him. With the time compression I am not sure where his story truly fell. We were shown Jim Crow segregated Virginia yet while the US Army had been integrated for a decade in church he was introduced as taking command of a National Guard unit in a segregated state
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
Colonel Johnson's story did spike my interest in him. With the time compression I am not sure where his story truly fell. We were shown Jim Crow segregated Virginia yet while the US Army had been integrated for a decade in church he was introduced as taking command of a National Guard unit in a segregated state
Lieutenant Colonel James Johnson | WTKR.com

One of the things about the segregated south is that the "separate but equal" didn't produce equality, but it did produce racial parallelism, which meant that the south had black parallels to many white cultural institutions that northern blacks did not have.

That's why in the south, black intellectuals were not considered "acting white" because everyone in the south was familiar with the black colleges (almost wholly southern) that produced them. How could being smart be "acting white" when all the teachers and the principal were black?
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:13 AM
 
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Default Good Movie !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Saw "Hidden Figures" this evening--and all showings were sold out at several theaters in our area.

We enjoyed it a lot--very uplifting. I can remember in 1961 that our teachers at George Washington Carver Elementary got more advanced math books from the library and burned the mimeograph machine out to give us materials we'd never have gotten from the hand-me-down books the town gave us. Some of that kind of thinking was evident among the "colored computers" in this movie.

My understanding is that the characterization of John Glenn's attitude toward the "colored computers" was accurate--he was said to have had the attitude of "They must be smart or they wouldn't be here, so I'm fine with them."

My only criticism of the direction was too much verbal exposition--the most brilliant orbital mathematicians in the nation giving each other 3rd grade explanations of things they knew in the 2nd grade. But other than that, it was good to watch.

I don't think they blew anything up, though.

No, wait, they did--they had record footage of a lot of the early failed NASA launch attempts.
What the movie shows, is the hidden contribution of black people which go far and beyond things such as this movie, it is a long history of people like Stafford, taking credit for work minorities performed, and trying to push back, diminish and make lessor the capabilities of others. (in the end of the movie his character was made to come around to respecting her)

Sadly today, we have black people in position, doing the exact same thing to other black people today as what some whites did to blacks back then. Is it learned behavior? or just the need for credit that makes people take on the character of push back, fight against, deny and try and limit others. Whether such is done by any person to another is a tragedy and vain madness, we as a society must move beyond, to learn how to respect all, work together and give people their individual regard and credit for the performance of their expressed abilities and support for their capabilities.

We know white society spent inordinate time trying to hide and deny things to minorities, they went to the extent to try and fill the various professions with "Latin Phrasing", because they wanted to confoud the matter and make even more difficult for the avenue of blacks to indulge the learning and performance of professions. But, thought all such vile and mad efforts, nothing can contain the human spirit when it has aims to learn.

All people have done is set the world back maybe even a full Century from where it could be. By the exact same thing we saw in this movie... the act of trying to marginalize people, trying to put crazy criteria in the ways of participation, and only making gateways open if they themselves could pump their ego and get credit for doing so... Of which we saw that in the Judge, as he only allowed the woman to go to the white schools, because he was vainly looking out for his own legacy and his own ego.. Not the matter of principle, that the role and position as a judiciary should be concerned and focused upon.

This is only one of many stories, History is filled with white people taking credit and omitting the work of black people. Einstein, was a supporter of the black people working on the Manhattan Project and many other programs during his era. He regarded their brilliance and respected their humanity. White people who wrote and distributed history books took great effort to excluded all of that from their push of a false history to the young people of American for decades upon decades.


Go and look at advancements and you find black people..

Mark Dean

Vivien Thomas

Charles Richard Drew

One can go and look in many fields and find black people whose contribution improve the world and America. This list is of those who are acknowledged and notable, it does not count or record the millions of others who made millions of innovative contribution over the span of America's history and the overall History of the World, as one goes an look at the ancient history long before there was an American as acknowledged by white people. History before white people came to North American's Continent has reference to the long presence of black people and their ventures to North America's Continent and South America.

One simply has to indulge in research to get beyond the slanted history as written by white people, to find out what is the True History.

People like the character of John Glenn, as well as the character played Harrison in the Movie, is more realistic of people who have the vested value in the Science and Technology, who did not have time to indulge and patronize racism, they had a mission and they were larger than the concept of racism, to look at the human capability and respect the performance of individuals.

Some time inaccuracies in the movie may be noted, but that is to serve a point of depicting the disposition mentality that was pervasive across the nation and the silliness of how long the ignorance of segregation lasted.

The open mind of
Quote:
President Franklin D. Roosevelt wanted to ensure the war effort drew from all of American society after the United States entered World War II in 1942. He issued Executive Order 8802, to desegregate the defense industry, and Executive Order 9346 to end racial segregation and discrimination in hiring and promotion among federal agencies and defense contractors. cite:
Good Movie- There should be more movies as such made, it is more about the character and life of people, than the shootem up, sexem up and the reality show slap stick insidiousness that seem to dominate the media industry and what it promotes.
Time constraints in movie making will also move through periods without capturing all the details, but this movie was a good frame up for the story of Hidden Figures.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:11 AM
 
14,361 posts, read 6,976,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
People like the character of John Glenn, as well as the character played Harrison in the Movie, is more realistic of people who have the vested value in the Science and Technology, who did not have time to indulge and patronize racism, they had a mission and they were larger than the concept of racism, to look at the human capability and respect the performance of individuals.

My daughter points out that where white people (or a subculture of white people) has found their self-validation in a culture other than their "whiteness," they are more likely to accept anyone who has the ability to advance that culture.


Thus, there really were some white people more interested in advancing the sport of baseball than in keeping Jackie Robinson out of it.


There have long been some white military leaders more interested in winning battles than in keeping good black soldiers out of it.

Quote:
Some time inaccuracies in the movie may be noted, but that is to serve a point of depicting the disposition mentality that was pervasive across the nation and the silliness of how long the ignorance of segregation lasted.

Some technical inaccuracies can serve truth when constraints prevent accuracy.


For instance, I was aware that at least as early as the 1940s, government buildings were built with plenty of allowance for segregated rest rooms. I did not think it was likely that there were no restrooms for "colored women" in the building in which Ms Johnson worked (although it was probably in the basement).


OTOH, as a husband with daughters, I'm totally aware of how dramatic the restroom issue is for women. Asking "where is the restroom?" and being told "I have no idea (and frankly don't care)" is going to be a pretty personally dramatic issue, and a little literary license to properly convey the drama is not out of hand


Nor would the reality properly convey the real drama. The reality is that Ms Johnson chose to use the white restroom...and the other workers acquiesced to that.


Two points of drama in the reality: One is that at the time, every black person was aware that white people were as unpredictable in their predilection for physical violence as a grizzly bear wandering into your tent. As Ms Johnson dared to use the white restroom, she had to settle in her mind that it would cost her at least her job, and at most conceivably her life. That's how real the issue was back then--she was about to change her entire life just walking through the wrong doorway. But that dire reality would not have been depicted by her merely walking through a doorway.


Similarly, the unexpected acquiescence of those whites to her using their white restroom is also a very dramatic indication of how important success in the Space Race was to them, and an acknowledgement that she as a person was vital to that success.


For someone who was there at the time and has a gut understanding of the situation, a straightforward depiction of a black woman walking through that door and getting away with it would have been dramatic. We would have been holding our breaths through the entire scene.


But for today's audience, I think how the movie depicted it created the correct level of drama--both the daring and the acceptance--that the moment deserves.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:55 AM
 
3,455 posts, read 1,352,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
My daughter points out that where white people (or a subculture of white people) has found their self-validation in a culture other than their "whiteness," they are more likely to accept anyone who has the ability to advance that culture.


Thus, there really were some white people more interested in advancing the sport of baseball than in keeping Jackie Robinson out of it.


There have long been some white military leaders more interested in winning battles than in keeping good black soldiers out of it.




Some technical inaccuracies can serve truth when constraints prevent accuracy.


For instance, I was aware that at least as early as the 1940s, government buildings were built with plenty of allowance for segregated rest rooms. I did not think it was likely that there were no restrooms for "colored women" in the building in which Ms Johnson worked (although it was probably in the basement).


OTOH, as a husband with daughters, I'm totally aware of how dramatic the restroom issue is for women. Asking "where is the restroom?" and being told "I have no idea (and frankly don't care)" is going to be a pretty personally dramatic issue, and a little literary license to properly convey the drama is not out of hand


Nor would the reality properly convey the real drama. The reality is that Ms Johnson chose to use the white restroom...and the other workers acquiesced to that.



Two points of drama in the reality: One is that at the time, every black person was aware that white people were as unpredictable in their predilection for physical violence as a grizzly bear wandering into your tent. As Ms Johnson dared to use the white restroom, she had to settle in her mind that it would cost her at least her job, and at most conceivably her life. That's how real the issue was back then--she was about to change her entire life just walking through the wrong doorway. But that dire reality would not have been depicted by her merely walking through a doorway.


Similarly, the unexpected acquiescence of those whites to her using their white restroom is also a very dramatic indication of how important success in the Space Race was to them, and an acknowledgement that she as a person was vital to that success.


For someone who was there at the time and has a gut understanding of the situation, a straightforward depiction of a black woman walking through that door and getting away with it would have been dramatic. We would have been holding our breaths through the entire scene.


But for today's audience, I think how the movie depicted it created the correct level of drama--both the daring and the acceptance--that the moment deserves.

We agree, it was done well, I actually have watched it "three times". I generally re-watch movies that are done well and have content that the mind has to expand and relate with awareness, knowledge and understand the context within and of concepts in what the scenes and and the script is presenting.

I'd agree also with your daughters statement:

{My daughter points out that where white people (or a subculture of white people) has found their self-validation in a culture other than their "whiteness," they are more likely to accept anyone who has the ability to advance that culture.} One only need to look at Music to see how much white culture fought black music, but at the same time were still seeking ways to infuse it into their own, and ultimately wanted to make claims to it, because from a world view it benefits their concept of their cultural spectrum. We see it even with Rap, look at the commercials being advertised, how they only supported Rap and Hip Hop because it was in their view became beneficial to improving their market shares.

But, for us, its not about them and their self focused aims, because their history toward us has been "using us" to further themselves. It's our time to focus on what we do because that is what we do, and the same as MLK, he tried to tell them that Civil Rights was not black people being selfish, Civil Rights was for everyone, and the resulting impact of it, has been as well to teach the non racist whites who chose to let go of such ignorance, to learn how the Respect the same Constitution so many are quick to refer unto, but so many and their ancestry violated the very same Constitution and Insulted it with their racism and their segregationist madness. If not the for Civil Rights Movement, there might be many more white people still stuck in the cycle of such racist and bigoted madness and disrespect of the Constitution. some by choice as there still is today, and some simply because they feared for their own lives, because of the same as you say "white people were as unpredictable in their predilection for physical violence as a grizzly bear wandering into your tent" they'd attack any white person who did not endorse their racist views and conduct.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:19 AM
 
4,406 posts, read 4,915,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Lieutenant Colonel James Johnson | WTKR.com

One of the things about the segregated south is that the "separate but equal" didn't produce equality, but it did produce racial parallelism, which meant that the south had black parallels to many white cultural institutions that northern blacks did not have.

That's why in the south, black intellectuals were not considered "acting white" because everyone in the south was familiar with the black colleges (almost wholly southern) that produced them. How could being smart be "acting white" when all the teachers and the principal were black?
Ralph I so agree with your posts on the movie. Your statement about parallels caught my attention as being true and reflect a true understanding of life at the time as I remember it being.

IMO The movie was good on many levels and to view it on one level only is missing its full flavor. Kind of like reading Moby Dick and saying it is a fish story.
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Old 02-13-2017, 01:05 PM
 
14,361 posts, read 6,976,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
If not the for Civil Rights Movement, there might be many more white people still stuck in the cycle of such racist and bigoted madness and disrespect of the Constitution. some by choice as there still is today, and some simply because they feared for their own lives, because of the same as you say "white people were as unpredictable in their predilection for physical violence as a grizzly bear wandering into your tent" they'd attack any white person who did not endorse their racist views and conduct.
The movie showed--quickly, but it was there for the perceptive--what was going on in the "wider world" of the Civil Rights Era at the time.


Notably: The Freedom Riders protest. This was remarkable in that it had and required ample participation by whites to make the protest work.


The southern states had Jim Crow laws that prohibited integrated bus travel. However, the federal government ruled in its jurisdiction over interstate trade that segregation on interstate bus travel was illegal.


As you noted in the movie, the state courts didn't care what the federal government had ruled. The southern states were still enforcing their segregation laws upon interstate bus travel despite the federal ruling. Some extremely courageous young people, both black and white, were determined to challenge those states.


Martin Luther King told them at the time, quote: "Those people will kill you."


The young people started trips from Washington DC with stops through the south. Here are some of the images from that protest. In Alabama, the local police actually agreed to give the mob 15 minutes to do anything they wanted.


Youth were arrested and thrown into the worst jail in Alabama. Their response: "We will fill your jail up." And scores more joined into the protest.


But this was the atmosphere in which these Hidden Figures worked, and it's not easily understood today how courageous and daring was even someone entering a local court to demand the right that the Supreme Court had ruled nearly ten years earlier
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:13 PM
 
3,455 posts, read 1,352,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The movie showed--quickly, but it was there for the perceptive--what was going on in the "wider world" of the Civil Rights Era at the time.


Notably: The Freedom Riders protest. This was remarkable in that it had and required ample participation by whites to make the protest work.


The southern states had Jim Crow laws that prohibited integrated bus travel. However, the federal government ruled in its jurisdiction over interstate trade that segregation on interstate bus travel was illegal.


As you noted in the movie, the state courts didn't care what the federal government had ruled. The southern states were still enforcing their segregation laws upon interstate bus travel despite the federal ruling. Some extremely courageous young people, both black and white, were determined to challenge those states.


Martin Luther King told them at the time, quote: "Those people will kill you."


The young people started trips from Washington DC with stops through the south. Here are some of the images from that protest. In Alabama, the local police actually agreed to give the mob 15 minutes to do anything they wanted.


Youth were arrested and thrown into the worst jail in Alabama. Their response: "We will fill your jail up." And scores more joined into the protest.


But this was the atmosphere in which these "Hidden Figures" worked, and it's not easily understood today how courageous and daring was even someone entering a local court to demand the right that the Supreme Court had ruled nearly ten years earlier
As I watched the movie, it was interesting looking at the inhumanity of peoples mentality when they put the coffee pot with the label on it. the symbolism of that conveyed the insidiousness of the times.

The movie found a way to symbolize so much while at the same time feature the focused and determined application of these women to present and execute their skills. Additionally; at the same time it mixed the best of "a love story" in without going into some overly visualized sexuality depictions. The love story of the women, the support of a man for his wife when she was going to pursue the engineer cert material, as well as the character of how the woman working through the system to get access to get the cert.
The role and position in being a single mother, the family unity and the responsibility of the man stepping in as a father figure while also emphasizing the longevity of his own parents marriage, and the credits showing he followed through with 56 yrs of marriage. There was a multitude of stories within and depicted by the symbolism(s) of how the scenes were weaved together.

The profound nature of the title is itself a story with much depth.
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