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Old 08-02-2017, 11:29 AM
 
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They'll just hope they can turn the other characters (Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel) into the next versions of Stark, Rogers and Odinson. I don't think that's going to happen with Ant-Rudd (spray him with Raid and recast immediately).

So far, only Chris Pratt seems to have a quasi-Downey draw as Star-Lord. There probably won't be another Iron Man movie for a long time, though last year Downey tweeted a pic of himself holding a sign that read: "SHERLOCK HOLMES 3 -OR- IRON MAN 4?"
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Icons are held to higher standards, as they should be.

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man are known and loved the world over. They are the modern versions of Hercules, Theseus, Perseus, Odysseus. A lot of -euses.

Until their movies came out, who outside of nerd-dom had even heard of Black Widow or Scarlet Witch or Nightcrawler or Deadpool?
They should be, but some of your nitpicking is clearly selective. Batman Begins is a modern classic. It put Bats back on the cinematic map after the crash and burn of Batman & Robin. Nolan rescued one of comics' greatest characters from being a cinematic laughingstock. Your claim of "too much, too soon" where Gordon and Batman are concerned is wholly subjective, and if you want to go there, there are many worse examples in other CBMs.

Last edited by AFtrEFkt; 08-02-2017 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Remington Steel View Post
I actually fell asleep on WW. And Harley Quinn is overrated.....go into a battle with aliens with no meta-human powers and just a pistol and a giant sledge hammer and survive....yeah, right...
A hot chick with a gun, fighting opponents with much more firepower...where else have we seen that? Hmm...

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Originally Posted by Remington Steel View Post
I think the general public already knows that Marvel movies have been out for awhile and have established an understandable universe so they look at it as DC is playing "catch up" and rushing things now, so they already go into the movie thinking "I bet this is gonna suck". And also, most of the general public are confused with Batman being recast so soon after the Nolan movies, they think all the movies are some how connected...or on the other hand, Batman being recast so many times within the past 25 years, they are growing weary and think the quality must be on the down slide since obviously "they can't keep the same actor in the role".
Batman's survived more recasts than any other character and he'll continue to. Because he's THE BATMAN.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Batman Begins is a modern classic. It put Bats back on the cinematic map after the crash and burn of Batman & Robin. Nolan rescued one of comics' greatest characters from being a cinematic laughingstock.
Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike Batman Begins at all. I just don't think it is the masterpiece that the Nolanites are DC fundamentalists think it is. I quite liked the first half of the movie. It's the final act that is a bit of a mess. Enough that I wouldn't call it a "classic" by any definition. But it's not a bad movie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Your claim of "too much, too soon" where Gordon and Batman are concerned is wholly subjective.
Yup. I claim to speak for no one but myself, and I freely admit that I have been a bit spoiled by the Golden Age of television in which we find ourselves. TV shows of 10-20 episodes have so much more time to develop character and plot that even the best movies often seem rushed and hollow by comparison. I have seen some good movies in theaters over the past five years. I don't remember seeing any that were half as good as many TV shows.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Batman's survived more recasts than any other character and he'll continue to. Because he's THE BATMAN.
Yup. And no one has nailed it yet, at least in live action. Keaton was a great Batman, not a very good Bruce Wayne --- and would have been a brilliant Joker. Clooney and Kilmer it's hard to judge because the movies were so bad. Bale was a fantastic Bruce Wayne. His Batman was more than a little grilled cheesey. I like Affleck and think he has the potential to be a great Batman and Bruce Wayne, but BvS was so awful that it's hard to tell.

So the real truth: Kevin Conroy is vengeance. Kevin Conroy is the night. Kevin Conroy is BATMAN!
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Don't get me wrong. I don't dislike Batman Begins at all. I just don't think it is the masterpiece that the Nolanites are DC fundamentalists think it is. I quite liked the first half of the movie. It's the final act that is a bit of a mess. Enough that I wouldn't call it a "classic" by any definition. But it's not a bad movie.
It seems your problem isn't with the execution so much as the subject matter itself.

Again, I ask: did you read Batman: Year One? That's one of the film's principal sources. Frank Miller wrote it. David Mazzucchelli drew it. I loved it.

One key difference between Year One comic/film: it was the Joker who plotted to poison the reservoir.

Quote:
In 2005, Christopher Nolan began his series, with the reboot film Batman Begins, which draws inspiration from Batman: Year One and other stories. Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins and its sequel The Dark Knight are set during the same timespan and adopt several elements directly from the graphic novel. Major characters like Commissioner Loeb, Detective Flass and Carmine 'The Roman' Falcone who are featured prominently in Batman Begins. Film critic Michael Dodd argued that with each major motion picture focused on the Dark Knight's origins, the odes and references to the Year One comic increased. Comparing Mask of the Phantasm with Batman Begins he noted that "...Phantasm was a Batman story with Year One elements, while Batman Begins was a Year One story with added features".[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:_Year_One
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
It seems your problem isn't with the execution so much as the subject matter itself.
It's both.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Again, I ask: did you read Batman: Year One? That's one of the film's principal sources. Frank Miller wrote it. David Mazzucchelli drew it. I loved it.
Batman: Year One is my all-time favorite comic book. It is the definitive Batman in my brain. The fact that it "inspired" Nolan with some characters and plot elements is evident. But the tone of Batman: Year One is entirely different than Batman Begins.

B:Y1 is noir through and through, and it is just as much Gordon's story as Batman's. Moreso really. Gordon is the main character in B:Y1 with Batman playing second fiddle. The real villains are organized crime and corrupt cops. The Joker is mentioned in one line of dialogue.

Batman Begins is more of a Bondesque adventure flick. Again, it isn't bad. The first half of the movie is actually quite good. But it is a pale shadow compared to B:Y1, hurt primarily by some really goofy villains and nefarious plots. I kept expecting Katie Holmes to get tied to the railroad tracks and Neeson tweak his beard before cackling in a sinister fashion.
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
21,579 posts, read 11,806,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
They'll just hope they can turn the other characters (Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel) into the next versions of Stark, Rogers and Odinson. I don't think that's going to happen with Ant-Rudd (spray him with Raid and recast immediately).

So far, only Chris Pratt seems to have a quasi-Downey draw as Star-Lord. There probably won't be another Iron Man movie for a long time, though last year Downey tweeted a pic of himself holding a sign that read: "SHERLOCK HOLMES 3 -OR- IRON MAN 4?"
I honestly think they will though. Why I say this ous Marvel hasn't flopped yet. D.C. hasn't but they put out two decisive films and one mostly beloved film. Compare this to Marvel, I can only rally think of two maybe three movies out of what sixteen (Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3 and Thor 2) that were not almost universally loved. That says something. D.C. has a track record of mostly divisive films while Marvel doesn't. Do I think Marvel will make smash hits with every single new property, probably not. However I figure that Disney won't be losing money but putting out Marvel movies anytime soon.
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Old 08-02-2017, 03:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Batman: Year One is my all-time favorite comic book. It is the definitive Batman in my brain.
I didn't see that coming. I thought you hated anything/everything Frank Miller did for Batman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Batman Begins is more of a Bondesque adventure flick. Again, it isn't bad. The first half of the movie is actually quite good. But it is a pale shadow compared to B:Y1, hurt primarily by some really goofy villains and nefarious plots. I kept expecting Katie Holmes to get tied to the railroad tracks and Neeson tweak his beard before cackling in a sinister fashion.
Sure.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I honestly think they will though.
Stranger things have happened. But I don't see any of their second tier characters (Doctor Strange, Ant Man, Black Panther) filling the shoes of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk.
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