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Old 12-09-2017, 08:32 PM
Status: "Had enough and will not be silenced!" (set 27 days ago)
 
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If it's anything like TFA, it'll be horrible. Yet the premise that the Jedi Order needs to end is a very interesting one.

It was implied, especially during the prequels, that the Jedi Order was about as bad as the Sith were, just from a different angle. What Sidious said about all who gain power being afraid to lose it, including the Jedi, there might have been an element of truth to it.


If the Sith were too selfish and focused on the individual too much, the Jedi had the opposite fault in that they were collectivists and viewed things like true marital commitment as taboo.

Also, Obi-wan is a moral relativist. He even goes so far as to suggest that only Sith believe in moral absolutes. (One wonders if that was just him or if the Jedi Order itself holds those views and those like Qui-Gonn, Dooku, Anakin, Ahsoka, and Luke just rejected them.)

(In addition to believing that everything can be true from a certain point of view (though when Anakin says that from his point of view, that the Jedi were evil, Obi-wan replies that Anakin must be a lost cause then.)

So were the Jedi actually evil like Anakin said? What they did to Ahsoka was pretty despicable and I'm sure was a factor in Anakin turning against the Order.


With this premise, rejecting the collectivism of the Jedi and the selfishness of the Sith to get something better that's more in-between as the new protectors of the galaxy, it might suggest that Luke learned the failure of the old Jedi Order and no longer wishes to continue it.

However, it's also possible that, like Han, they are planning to make Luke a wuss in this new trilogy to push a feminist agenda and that Luke doesn't have any moral good ground for wanting to go into hiding and get rid of the Jedi Order. Even Kylo appears to be a wuss and a ploy to make Rei look better. (Though Snoke is an unknown right now. Sidious was more or less the same way, appearing little in TPM and ESB and some in AOTC and he was most dangerous in the trilogy finales, ROTS and ROTJ.)

BTW, I'm not suggesting that there is no good and evil (even Obi-wan believes that Chancellor Palpatine is evil, though who moral relative value he bases that off of, I don't know. ) but that the idea that the Jedi= Good and Sith = Evil might not be true.


While Sidious and Maul were bad dudes, Tyranus (Dooku) and Vader started out with a lot of humanity in them and good intentions.


The Jedi Order did have a control issue. They didn't want Anakin just because they couldn't control him. They only take younglings because they are easier to control. (That was why Yoda was afraid to take Luke, because he was too old to be manipulated too easily. Obi-wan hoped that Luke could be brainwashed to be one of them, but Luke proved stronger than either the pulls of the Jedi or the Sith, unless the Disney ST, which I consider dubious cannon to non-canon, disproves that, but chose his own path, rejecting the requests of both Obi-wan and Sidious to kill Vader and complete the given mission to them. (Yoda/Obi-wan said that Luke would fully be a Jedi only when he could defeat Vader. Sidious said that striking down Vader (though he also said the same thing about striking down himself) would complete Luke's journey to the Dark Side. As we know, Luke rejected both Obi-wan's order (by at first refusing to fight Vader, even at the beckoning of both Obi-wan and Vader) and later by Sidious (who told him to finish off Vader after he'd briefly given in to the Dark Side.)

When Anakin got redemption by saving Luke, he had ceased to be Darth Vader, had killed Darth Sidious, had wiped out the corrupt Jedi Order, and had left only his son, who was more like Qui-Gon,a grey Jedi, thus having restored balance to the Force and completed the prophecy of the Chosen One.

Now, if one argues that Luke still had some of the old Jedi Order (or perhaps even a bit of Vader in him as thus a Sith tendency) and thus chose to continue the saga perhaps to suggest that the Jedi were the problem too more bluntly than was already done in the PT (where it was subtle), then I guess it's ok and that Luke would later have to defeat said Jedi Order and create a better order, one not given to either the extremes of the Jedi or the Sith, that would be great.

Otherwise, they are just making more films for no good storyline development.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
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The Force Awakens was my favorite that wasnt 5 or 4 in all honesty and The Last Jedi look awesome from the trailers. I'm excited for Thursday night.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Maine
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"The best since Empire" sayeth the early audiences.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-first-im...are-1821163099
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:11 PM
 
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TLJ will be better because JJ didn't direct it, and because they got the retread out of the way in TFA.

That said, if Mark Hamill wasn't a big part of this movie, my interest would be somewhat (or greatly) diminished.
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
24,054 posts, read 13,677,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
TLJ will be better because JJ didn't direct it, and because they got the retread out of the way in TFA.

That said, if Mark Hamill wasn't a big part of this movie, my interest would be somewhat (or greatly) diminished.
Sure blame it on Abrams. I actually loved TFA
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Old 12-10-2017, 03:13 PM
 
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Take it easy. I said it would be better. I didn't say JJ should go swimming with concrete galoshes.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:12 PM
 
5,483 posts, read 3,822,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
"The best since Empire" sayeth the early audiences.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-first-im...are-1821163099
LOL. They probably used the entire formula of Empire Strikes Back to make this film.
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Old 12-10-2017, 06:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mr. Ryu View Post
lol. They probably used the entire formula of Empire Strikes Back to make this film.
Don't jinx it!!
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Old 12-11-2017, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
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Originally Posted by Mr. Ryu View Post
LOL. They probably used the entire formula of Empire Strikes Back to make this film.
I'm sure elements are there but then again "Join me..." is a line the dark side always uses to get them to join them.
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Old 12-11-2017, 06:10 AM
 
5,483 posts, read 3,822,183 times
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Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I'm sure elements are there but then again "Join me..." is a line the dark side always uses to get them to join them.
They have soo much source material to play with and maybe tweak a little to make something new with all the star wars comics, novels, video games, etc. The Force Awakens was a blatant copy of A New Hope.
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