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Old 12-29-2017, 03:14 AM
 
Location: East Flatbush, Brooklyn
667 posts, read 233,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RICANRICAN View Post
Star Wars: Attack of the Mary Sue should be the next film!
The term, Mary Sue, is a stupid MRA term that was invented by Max Landis, the spoiled and talentless brat of John Landis. A Mary Sue is a character who is a writer's alter ego. That's all its ever meant. Max Landis, a hack who couldn't write his way out of a paper bag, saw the term on Tropes.com one day, then twisted the meaning around to mean "Female character you should immediately hate because she's in a role where she's not a damsel in a distress, the male hero's personal sex tpy or stripping for no reason." And now you and other gullible males are just parroting what Landis said, I guess, became you don't question what you read and hear on the internet and take every piece of garbage meme at face value.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,092 posts, read 19,732,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastFlatbush View Post
Okay, not that I loved the sequence (it felt like filler), but am I the only one who got that it was supposed to be a twist on the "hive of scum and villainy" Mos Eisley theme? It seems as if every one of these movies, there's going to be a "Mos Eisley" location and that in this film, instead of having it be a dive bar or something, they made it into a high class Monaco type resort with super rich people. There was even music playing that was reminiscent of the Mos Eisley music from ANH.

Again, not saying it was a great sequence but I do think there was a creative reason behind it.
That's the problem though. Every character, every plot development, every setting is just a repeat of something we saw in a previous STAR WARS movie.

The prequels, for all their many weaknesses, at least tried to go in some new directions occasionally.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:09 AM
 
1,609 posts, read 690,648 times
Reputation: 2702
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastFlatbush View Post
The term, Mary Sue, is a stupid MRA term that was invented by Max Landis, the spoiled and talentless brat of John Landis. A Mary Sue is a character who is a writer's alter ego. That's all its ever meant. Max Landis, a hack who couldn't write his way out of a paper bag, saw the term on Tropes.com one day, then twisted the meaning around to mean "Female character you should immediately hate because she's in a role where she's not a damsel in a distress, the male hero's personal sex tpy or stripping for no reason." And now you and other gullible males are just parroting what Landis said, I guess, became you don't question what you read and hear on the internet and take every piece of garbage meme at face value.
Thanks for that very "detailed" explanation.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:16 PM
 
Location: On the road
2,645 posts, read 1,829,421 times
Reputation: 2866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
That's the problem though. Every character, every plot development, every setting is just a repeat of something we saw in a previous STAR WARS movie.

The prequels, for all their many weaknesses, at least tried to go in some new directions occasionally.
That is kind of the point of the SW films.
Just plain old entertainment formula flicks.
Too many people try to make much more of the series, and find it wanting.
Just buy your ticket, grab some popcorn, sit back and enjoy the show.

(Of course, I grew up when that was what going to the movies was all about.)
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
5,847 posts, read 6,926,812 times
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I just saw it and I did enjoy it. Was it the best SW movie...no it was not. These new characters are not the equals of the heroes of the original movies. Rey is no Luke, Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, Po and Finn are no Leia or Han Solo. No contest, the older characters are better, they are more authentic and believable heroes.

I also did not like the way they portray the older Luke as a bitter old man obsessed with failure. I believe Leia should have been the one to sacrifice herself to destroy the first order fleet. She also seemed to be treated as a sort of helpless character, not the brave princess she was. I realize this trilogy is about the new characters but they could have portrayed these characters truer to thier original attributes.

Still given these beefs I have with the movie I still enjoyed it. As a gen Xer I may be biased in my views, I also realize these new movies are written for millenials and even younger audiences.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:14 PM
 
15,057 posts, read 4,917,021 times
Reputation: 10677
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I just saw it and I did enjoy it. Was it the best SW movie...no it was not. These new characters are not the equals of the heroes of the original movies. Rey is no Luke, Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, Po and Finn are no Leia or Han Solo. No contest, the older characters are better, they are more authentic and believable heroes.

I also did not like the way they portray the older Luke as a bitter old man obsessed with failure. I believe Leia should have been the one to sacrifice herself to destroy the first order fleet. She also seemed to be treated as a sort of helpless character, not the brave princess she was. I realize this trilogy is about the new characters but they could have portrayed these characters truer to thier original attributes.

Still given these beefs I have with the movie I still enjoyed it. As a gen Xer I may be biased in my views, I also realize these new movies are written for millenials and even younger audiences.
This is my main beef with the film as well. That was not the Luke Skywalker we saw at the end of Return of the Jedi, a wise and seasoned Jedi master. His teacher, Obi-Wan Kenobi, also had his prize pupil turn to the dark side, but he never became a bitter old man who rejected the force as a result, so I'm not sure why they think Luke would. And I don't buy that Luke would abandon Leia like that for all of those years.

They kind of destroyed Luke's character in the process of "burning down the old" to make way for the next generation, and that was wholly unnecessary in my view. I would have enjoyed seeing more of Jedi Luke, training Rey and actually interacting with Leia. I felt cheated out of that in what will be Luke's last (alive) appearance.

And I hated, hated, hated the porgs. Hated on the same level that I hated Jar Jar. Ugh.

That said, the one thing I think they did well in this film is that they gave Luke a good death. He died as a Jedi, saving the Resistance one last time.

While I like Rey, I'm just not invested in these characters the way I was with the originals. Kylo Ren lacks the gravitas of a really good bad guy. Someone on another forum called him a manbaby, and I think that fits. He sure does whine a lot.

If they are attempting to rebuild the franchise for a new generation, they are leaving behind many of the original fans. But as long as it continues to rake it in at the box office, I don't think Disney will care.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:03 PM
 
17,924 posts, read 9,854,361 times
Reputation: 17420
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastFlatbush View Post
The term, Mary Sue, is a stupid MRA term that was invented by Max Landis, the spoiled and talentless brat of John Landis. A Mary Sue is a character who is a writer's alter ego. That's all its ever meant. Max Landis, a hack who couldn't write his way out of a paper bag, saw the term on Tropes.com one day, then twisted the meaning around to mean "Female character you should immediately hate because she's in a role where she's not a damsel in a distress, the male hero's personal sex tpy or stripping for no reason." And now you and other gullible males are just parroting what Landis said, I guess, became you don't question what you read and hear on the internet and take every piece of garbage meme at face value.
Max Landis did not invent the term, he did not popularize the term, and you can't disable it by putting his name on it.

The meaning is in tvtropes.org, and it's primary and original meaning is still valid.

I held off calling Rey a Mary Sue after the first movie, but I'm going to call it for the second movie.

Luke Skywalker was arguably a Mary Sue (or "Gary Sue") in A New Hope (if one didn't pay attention to details), but was definitely not one by the end of Empire Strikes Back--he was put on the classical Hero's Journey.

It's clear at this point that Rey will not be put on the Hero's Journey (Finn, though, is). She's been Jesus through this trilogy.

I agree with JAMS14 that after seeing Obi Wan survive having his own padewan perform far more hideous deeds, Luke should not have falling into such an absurd level of self-indulgent withdrawal.

But all this could have been supported if the writer of this story had ever actually watched any of the previous programming. Rogue-One and Rebels have laid out a foundation for a sentient Force that does whatever it wants to do with whomever it wants to do it. The Force could make someone a valid Mary Sue, which wouldn't be interesting as a saga, but it would at least hold together as a logical story line depending on what the Force was actually doing.

In that case, "What is the Force's goal?" would become the primary story line (as it has become in Rebels).

Last edited by Ralph_Kirk; 01-01-2018 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:14 PM
 
17,924 posts, read 9,854,361 times
Reputation: 17420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I am referring to the slave kids on Vegas World. This movie would have been SOOOO much better had the creators had the guts to movie away from the Good Guys fighting the Evil Empire and do a much smaller good vs. evil story. Even one as simple as freeing slaves. That would be one that not only would relate to Rey directly, who grew up under very much the same circumstances, but would also give Leia and the Alliance something to do --- now that they have defeated the Empire, they have the job of creating a just society and are realizing it ain't so easy. There is more to being good than just blowing up the bad guys.

In short: Lucasfilm and Disney had a chance to do something special with a new trilogy. Instead they chose the easy route and gave us an inferior re-tread of the same story with a cartoon plot populated by cartoon villains.
I suspect that sequence will be forgotten entirely in the future.

But if they don't, they've also inserted a whole new issue in the story that they'll have to handle.

What they've done is create "villain behind the villain." The story is no longer about the Allies versus the Axis, they've now introduced "The Oligarchy Controlling Both Sides."

Lucas had avoided this in the prequel trilogy by making the arms dealers discrete worlds allied with one side or the other. Clone Wars provided details that the line could be blurred--some worlds wobbled between one side or the other, a few renegades could operated under the table--but it was still a pretty simple matter of Allies versus Axis.

The Axis would never allow its own arms industries to sell arms to the Allies. If the post-empire world has seen the rise of a Daddy Warbucks oligarchy with the power to operate boldly above the fray, they've shifted the fight to a level above merely fighting the First Order...now they need to get to the Oligarchy Controlling Both Sides.

But I suspect this entire sequence was merely an insertion of social cause fan support (they love puppies, too).

But this stems from nobody ever having actually fleshed out this universe in the first place. We have a lot to complain about the prequels, but a poorly fleshed out universe isn't one of them.
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Old 01-01-2018, 07:19 PM
 
17,924 posts, read 9,854,361 times
Reputation: 17420
It occurs to me that they've actually ended the story. It's basically done.

Is there any storyline left unended that anyone feels any urgency to see ended?
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,092 posts, read 19,732,985 times
Reputation: 17201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
It occurs to me that they've actually ended the story. It's basically done.

Is there any storyline left unended that anyone feels any urgency to see ended?
I find Daisy Ridley adorable enough that I'm sure I'll see the next movie.

I would like to see Poe Dameron court martialled for his behavior in THE LAST JEDI. Really. What soldier could get away with that and not face a firing squad?
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