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Old 05-23-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,104 posts, read 19,749,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
He did begin and end the movie thinking he was above authority. We don't blame him.
When the authority itself is corrupt, then defying it becomes an act of heroism.

Which is why Deckard doesn't begin his journey to heroism until the end. He is serving a corrupt authority. Reluctantly, I'll grant you. But so what? We would hardly accept such an excuse from an SS officer. "Jah, I exterminated three thousand people in the camp. But in my defense, I felt really bad about it." You're still a villain.

And this why Deckard really is the villain in Blade Runner. He repents at the end, yes, but that means turning his back on his former life.

On a side note: That is also why Ridley Scott insisting Deckard is just another replicant robs that ending of so much of its power. Deckard finally rejecting the Us vs. Them justification is an act of courageous repentance. If he's a replicant, he's only switching teams.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:46 PM
 
17,984 posts, read 9,875,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
He did begin and end the movie thinking he was above authority. We don't blame him.
Rather, he ignored authority. Authority was irrelevant in his world. Same is true of Peter Quill.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:14 PM
 
5,601 posts, read 2,441,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Not necessary "good," but still morally superior. Pliskin never throttled old ladies, shot women in the back, or sliced up children, and certain other plot devices that normally label unredeemable characters.
Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is, he's such a badass you don't care what he might have done in his time before the events of the film. For all we know, he smacked a gas station attendant with the end of the nozzle because he was in a bad mood that day. At the end of EFNY, he destroys the tape with the recorded message. That tape was the real mission, its message intended to avert WWIII or the prolonging of current hostilities between nations.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:21 PM
 
5,601 posts, read 2,441,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
When the authority itself is corrupt, then defying it becomes an act of heroism.

Which is why Deckard doesn't begin his journey to heroism until the end. He is serving a corrupt authority. Reluctantly, I'll grant you. But so what? We would hardly accept such an excuse from an SS officer. "Jah, I exterminated three thousand people in the camp. But in my defense, I felt really bad about it." You're still a villain.

And this why Deckard really is the villain in Blade Runner. He repents at the end, yes, but that means turning his back on his former life.

On a side note: That is also why Ridley Scott insisting Deckard is just another replicant robs that ending of so much of its power. Deckard finally rejecting the Us vs. Them justification is an act of courageous repentance. If he's a replicant, he's only switching teams.
The Joker of The Dark Knight is a better cut-and-dried villain. There are no grey areas. Not only does he do what he does, he goes out of his way to justify his actions, manipulating victims, blowing up hospitals and eliminating the competition along the way. Reluctant isn't part of his vocabulary.
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:10 PM
 
3,006 posts, read 982,783 times
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Yeah I agree about Deckard being a villain. Not sure if Roy counts as an anti-hero cause I kind of consider him to be a villain too, once he

SPOILER

Once he murdered Tyrell. He just cold blooded brutally murders Tyrell, and he does it for no reason, other than to get some frustration out. Usually anti-heroes have bigger reasons to kill, he seemed to do it just to let out some frustration only. Plus Roy is a real mustache twirler who really takes pleasure in all the negativity, even howling after Pris dies. Not sure if this is a villain quality, but usually anti-heroes do not take this much pleasure. So not sure if Roy is a villain or an anti-hero, as I feel he goes quite over to the dark side after Tyrell, but I agree that Deckard is still the main instigative villain of the story.

I can think of 4 possible movies that have a villain with an arc.

Heat (1995)
Oldboy (2003)
Cell 211 (2009)
Red Dragon (2002)

Unless those villains are also anti-heroes perhaps?
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Old 05-23-2018, 07:21 PM
 
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^Good call on Heat, ironpony! GREAT movie!
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:46 PM
 
17,984 posts, read 9,875,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Yeah I agree about Deckard being a villain. Not sure if Roy counts as an anti-hero cause I kind of consider him to be a villain too, once he

SPOILER

Once he murdered Tyrell. He just cold blooded brutally murders Tyrell, and he does it for no reason, other than to get some frustration out. Usually anti-heroes have bigger reasons to kill, he seemed to do it just to let out some frustration only. Plus Roy is a real mustache twirler who really takes pleasure in all the negativity, even howling after Pris dies. Not sure if this is a villain quality, but usually anti-heroes do not take this much pleasure. So not sure if Roy is a villain or an anti-hero, as I feel he goes quite over to the dark side after Tyrell, but I agree that Deckard is still the main instigative villain of the story.
Tyrell deserved killin'. What put Baty over the top was killing Sebastian.

But Baty and Deckard both redeemed themselves by the end, both finding common humanity.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,471 posts, read 639,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
A lot of times when you ask people who they thought the best movie villains are, usually the choices that come up are Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs version), The Joker (The Dark Knight version), Hans Gruber, HAL-9000, T-1000, etc.

But those are villains that do not go through character arcs and learn lessons and grow as the story goes along, and since Arc-less villains are often picked, I wonder if perhaps audiences prefer them more?
Yes. I do. A villain that can't feel emotions or be bargained with will always be far more terrifying than a villain that has a heart. For me, the most terrifying and personal favorite of movie villains are the Aliens in the Alien movies, especially 1 and 2. Jaws is another one that the so called villain scares the crap out of you. It's why horror movies are still so big to this day. The psychopathic serial killer will always be more feared and remembered than the villain who is just avenging his family's death.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:06 PM
 
3,006 posts, read 982,783 times
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Oh okay, I guess I just find the robotic villain kind of boring. In Alien and Jaws, they pop out at certain times, but when it comes to thrillers where the villain drives a lot of the story, I think you want them to have some sort of emotional reasoning, where he/she learns some sort of lesson.
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:16 PM
 
17,984 posts, read 9,875,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
Yes. I do. A villain that can't feel emotions or be bargained with will always be far more terrifying than a villain that has a heart. For me, the most terrifying and personal favorite of movie villains are the Aliens in the Alien movies, especially 1 and 2. Jaws is another one that the so called villain scares the crap out of you. It's why horror movies are still so big to this day. The psychopathic serial killer will always be more feared and remembered than the villain who is just avenging his family's death.
Those aren't really villains, though, those are monsters. I think the Snidely Whiplash villain gives the audience a more justified feeling that the violence of the hero is sufficiently validated.
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