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Old 06-10-2018, 02:37 PM
 
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Well I think Bad Lieutenant may have been going to far. I was thinking more like Jack Bauer in 24, cause in 24, if a villain gets immunity for his or her crimes, Jack Bauer has had no problem killing them in cold blood to prevent them from not being punished, even if they are unarmed and helpless while he kills them.

But unlike Bad Lieutenant, you don't see Jack Bauer doing things like blackmailing teenage girls to let him masturbate on their car, like the cop did in Bad Lieutenant.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Elysium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Well, I felt that the theme of the movie is how cops felt powerless to deal with criminals who keep slipping through the legal cracks, so I felt the movie should have kept that theme until the end, and Harry would feel he would have to straight up murder the guy, to keep him from killing again.

Even when Harry has his gun on him, Harry is only willing to shoot him if the guy picks up his gun and tries to shoot Harry. I thought a more dramatic ending, would be if the villain chose not to pick up his gun and chose to put his hands up and surrender, but Harry said to him that he wasn't going to have him get off again, and Harry then shoots him in the head, after he has already surrendered. This would be more dramatic and keeping with the ends justifies the means theme, which I felt they abandoned for an ending that felt too clean maybe.
The plot of the Dirty Harry sequel Magnum Force is Inspector Callahan tying to stop a police death squad from doing what you are suggesting.
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Old 06-10-2018, 03:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Well I think Bad Lieutenant may have been going to far. I was thinking more like Jack Bauer in 24, cause in 24, if a villain gets immunity for his or her crimes, Jack Bauer has had no problem killing them in cold blood to prevent them from not being punished, even if they are unarmed and helpless while he kills them.

But unlike Bad Lieutenant, you don't see Jack Bauer doing things like blackmailing teenage girls to let him masturbate on their car, like the cop did in Bad Lieutenant.
I said dirty cop. In his case, very dirty.

Jack Bauer's not a cop.
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Old 06-10-2018, 05:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
The plot of the Dirty Harry sequel Magnum Force is Inspector Callahan tying to stop a police death squad from doing what you are suggesting.
But that would have made Magnum Force more powerful then perhaps as Callahan feels he was once, one of them and now would see things differently for himself?
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taiko View Post
The plot of the Dirty Harry sequel Magnum Force is Inspector Callahan tying to stop a police death squad from doing what you are suggesting.
I think Magnum Force was intentionally made to bring Harry back from the vigilante tag he had earned in the first movie.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
I do like the movie overall, but I was somewhat disappointed in the ending. I feel that the villain starts out so smart when it comes to covering his tracks, and he has gotten away with two murders if I am correct.

However, after he has gotten away with the murders, he decides to do something really stupid, which is to take a public bus hostage for ransom and paint himself into a corner, even though the police are going to have a much easier time at getting him on a bus compared to before, when they didn't even know where he was. Now he is not only trapped on a bus but he has shown his face to all these witnesses, that he doesn't have enough bullets for now, if after he gets the money.

So I feel that it may have been lazy writing and the writers were thinking "now that he's gotten away with the murders, how is Harry going to get him now... well Harry can't get him now, now that all the evidence is inadmissible, and we don't want Harry to kill him and get rid of all the evidence to get off for the crime... So let's just have him take a bus hostage, and completely make mistakes that he was too smart to make before".

It just felt like a black and white Hays code ending, for what was suppose to be a really edge cop thriller. But what do you think?
I fail to see how Scorpio was 'so smart'.

He kills the woman in the pool, then attempts to extort money from the city of San Francisco. This fails, as the city declines to pay. After kidnapping a girl, he meets Callahan for the money drop. Instead of simply taking his payoff, he pointlessly decides to kill Callahan. Had he done so, this would have brought the full weight of law enforcement after him. How is that smart? It's not. But it is in line with Scorpio's violent impulsivity. Then he allows Callahan to stab him in the leg, which causes him to lose the drop money. He then fails to cover his tracks, allowing Callahan to figure out where he lives. He foolishly flees and is shot. They may not have been able to nail him on kidnapping or murder, but they had him on extortion and attempted murder. How is any of that smart? Scorpio was a complete failure, and only though Callahan's concern for the girl was he able to escape prosecution. And he still has a leg that was knifed and shot. He pays a guy to beat him up, which doesn't actually accomplish his goal of getting the police to let him alone.

Which brings us to Scorpio's desperation at the end of the film. First, it's in line with his aforementioned tendency to act imprudently. But he's also backed into a corner. His cover is blown, he's physically hurting and mentally hounded. His rash actions result from both his own nature and Callahan's harrying of him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
But why escalate into stupidity? Why not just continue to commit smart crimes, like before?
Scorpio never committed a smart crime. The primary motivation for his increasingly violent acts was exactly as Callahan told the DA: "'Cause he likes it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Even when Harry has his gun on him, Harry is only willing to shoot him if the guy picks up his gun and tries to shoot Harry. I thought a more dramatic ending, would be if the villain chose not to pick up his gun and chose to put his hands up and surrender, but Harry said to him that he wasn't going to have him get off again, and Harry then shoots him in the head, after he has already surrendered. This would be more dramatic and keeping with the ends justifies the means theme, which I felt they abandoned for an ending that felt too clean maybe.
Inspector Callahan believes in justice. He may be a little squishy on contemporary caselaw as it pertains to the Bill of Rights, but he certainly respects the law despite his disagreement on the system's precise application of that law. Once Callahan had Scorpio at gunpoint, he had achieved justice. It was just a matter of whether or not Scoprio was going to be taken alive. To have Callahan suddenly lurch from his unwavering focus on justice to summarily executing a suspect would represent a far greater change in character than the one you're concerned about with Scorpio. And if Callahan was just going to murder Scorpio, what would be the point of letting him kidnap a bunch of children first? That would have made no sense. Callahan could have just done it at any time, and more discreetly so that he could get away with it.

Callahan goaded Scorpio into choosing his fate, thereby achieving a certain end without stooping to extrajudicial means. The scene closed the circle on the earlier confrontation with the wounded bankrobber. And it served to reinforce Callahan's anti-hero nature. The reason the film is so iconic is in part because the ending was pitch-perfect to all that went before.

On a more practical note, had the ending featured Callahan simply murdering Scorpio then the film would not have been made, at least not by a major studio in the early 1970s. And Eastwood probably wouldn't have signed on do the film, at least not at that point in his career. Frank wouldn't have, either...

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Old 07-02-2018, 05:44 PM
 
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Oh okay, I thought the movie could have ended with Eastwood choosing to kill him to stop him from committing more crimes. The French Connection II came out like three years after Dirty Harry, and in that one:

SPOILER

Popeye Doyle kills the helpless and unarmed Charnier to stop him from getting away free, to commit more crimes in the end.

So I thought maybe it was possible to show that sort of thing back in the 70s.
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