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Old 06-11-2018, 09:58 PM
 
2,783 posts, read 898,669 times
Reputation: 2294

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Disney invested a bunch in the movie The Black Cauldron and it nearly destroyed them. Only the Disney Renaissance saved them from shutting down.

Now, of course, they own Marvel, Pixar, Fox, and LucasArts, but they seem to want to make Star Wars SJW and feminist despite increasing protests from the fans. I'm wondering if their Star Wars movies will be the downfall of their Empire (pun maybe intended).

(Plus, I might add, the anti-Disney backlash is growing over various issues:

1.) Their push of the Gay Agenda.
2.) Them making 200 American tech workers train their H1B replacements in order to get their severance pay.
3.) Them ruining Star Wars.
4.) Their support of "Dreamers"
5.) Their support (at least to a degree) of Trump
6.) Them paying their workers so low that many are homeless and/or hungry.
7.) Them pulling out of Trump's group over the pulling from the Paris Climate Agreement.
8.) Their decline in quality of films
9.) The backlash against ESPN
10.) The backlash against ABC for the cancellation of Last Man Standing, the backlash against Joy Behar, the anger over the firing of Roseanne, etc.
11.) Them becoming greedier and greedier and charging more and more to get into their parks and even to park.
12.) The Youtuber Fam and the stolen camera incident
13.) The growing backlash against the push of the SJW Agenda in Marvel films.
14.) The belief with the purchase of Fox that they are getting too big.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
Reputation: 17183
First of all: I liked THE BLACK CAULDRON. In fact, I would call it an under-appreciated gem. Not Disney's best by a long stretch, but nonetheless a very good animated movie. The fact that audiences didn't buy in is just proof that now and then audiences go barking mad. They fail to recognize classics like BLADE RUNNER or THE PRINCESS BRIDE or THE BLACK CAULDRON but shell out gazillions to go see FAST AND FURIOUS movies.

Secondly: No. STAR WARS will survive. I think Disney and Lucasfilm have made some pretty spectacular blunders over the past six years and need to get the train back on its tracks. But they will. Or they will completely crash it and someone will come along and buy STAR WARS and do it right. But STAR WARS will survive.

Finally: I don't see what most of your 1-14 list has to do with STAR WARS.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:30 AM
 
96 posts, read 59,012 times
Reputation: 155
First, you are comparing Star Wars to the Black Cauldron. One is wildly successful the other was not. So no I don't think Star Wars will cause the downfall of Disney.


Next, you are trying to tie a bunch of unrelated points into a larger argument. Most of those points are opinions (film quality, getting too big, etc.)


Bottom line is that Disney is making money and shows no sign of slowing down. Sure there will be some pushback and there have been some complaints from fans but at the end of the day the company is profitable and until that changes they are not in danger of going under.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:16 PM
 
1,816 posts, read 316,627 times
Reputation: 1019
Honestly, the Disney Empire is getting too big. I hope the attempted buyout of much of the Fox Empire doesn't get approved by the USDOJ.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
2,559 posts, read 1,203,441 times
Reputation: 1844
To me, Star Wars died in 2005. Since Disney bought it, the films have just felt like very expensive fan-fictions that add little or nothing to the story.


When I heard the new villain's name was Kylo Ren, that's when I stopped caring about the new movies and it's been kinda interesting watching the Disney Wars movie sink like the Titanic with its fanbase.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:56 AM
 
17,884 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
Disney invested a bunch in the movie The Black Cauldron and it nearly destroyed them. Only the Disney Renaissance saved them from shutting down.

Now, of course, they own Marvel, Pixar, Fox, and LucasArts, but they seem to want to make Star Wars SJW and feminist despite increasing protests from the fans. I'm wondering if their Star Wars movies will be the downfall of their Empire (pun maybe intended).

(Plus, I might add, the anti-Disney backlash is growing over various issues:

1.) Their push of the Gay Agenda.
2.) Them making 200 American tech workers train their H1B replacements in order to get their severance pay.
3.) Them ruining Star Wars.
4.) Their support of "Dreamers"
5.) Their support (at least to a degree) of Trump
6.) Them paying their workers so low that many are homeless and/or hungry.
7.) Them pulling out of Trump's group over the pulling from the Paris Climate Agreement.
8.) Their decline in quality of films
9.) The backlash against ESPN
10.) The backlash against ABC for the cancellation of Last Man Standing, the backlash against Joy Behar, the anger over the firing of Roseanne, etc.
11.) Them becoming greedier and greedier and charging more and more to get into their parks and even to park.
12.) The Youtuber Fam and the stolen camera incident
13.) The growing backlash against the push of the SJW Agenda in Marvel films.
14.) The belief with the purchase of Fox that they are getting too big.
Disney is making money hand-over-fist and shows no sign of stopping. They lost about 500 millions on two movies this year and profited 2.5 billions on a couple of others, plus all their other movies were also wildly profitable.

There isn't any SJW agenda in the Marvel films--that's been in the Marvel comics.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
2,376 posts, read 1,215,289 times
Reputation: 2507
Quote:
Originally Posted by MongooseHugger View Post
Disney invested a bunch in the movie The Black Cauldron and it nearly destroyed them. Only the Disney Renaissance saved them from shutting down.

Now, of course, they own Marvel, Pixar, Fox, and LucasArts, but they seem to want to make Star Wars SJW and feminist despite increasing protests from the fans. I'm wondering if their Star Wars movies will be the downfall of their Empire (pun maybe intended).

(Plus, I might add, the anti-Disney backlash is growing over various issues:

1.) Their push of the Gay Agenda.
2.) Them making 200 American tech workers train their H1B replacements in order to get their severance pay.
3.) Them ruining Star Wars.
4.) Their support of "Dreamers"
5.) Their support (at least to a degree) of Trump
6.) Them paying their workers so low that many are homeless and/or hungry.
7.) Them pulling out of Trump's group over the pulling from the Paris Climate Agreement.
8.) Their decline in quality of films
9.) The backlash against ESPN
10.) The backlash against ABC for the cancellation of Last Man Standing, the backlash against Joy Behar, the anger over the firing of Roseanne, etc.
11.) Them becoming greedier and greedier and charging more and more to get into their parks and even to park.
12.) The Youtuber Fam and the stolen camera incident
13.) The growing backlash against the push of the SJW Agenda in Marvel films.
14.) The belief with the purchase of Fox that they are getting too big.
Disney is rolling in success with Marvel films. Not sure what you mean by the SJW agenda, as all films are based on classic comic book characters that have been around for decades. Fun fact that most people already know, but the X-Men were inspired by the Civil Rights movement.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:55 PM
 
17,884 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Disney is rolling in success with Marvel films. Not sure what you mean by the SJW agenda, as all films are based on classic comic book characters that have been around for decades. Fun fact that most people already know, but the X-Men were inspired by the Civil Rights movement.
I'm going to say something about that which might be provocative.

There is a substantive difference between the Civil Rights agenda of that time (and, I think, similarly to the LGBTQ agenda) that is substantively different from the current feminist agenda that we can see in some media.

We wanted our seat at the table, our piece of the pie. But we believed the table and the pie were big enough for everyone. So we were happy with Black Panther--we didn't need a black Captain America. We liked Luke Cage--we didn't need a black Spider Man. Let the white guys stay white, just let black superheroes have a chance to become just as popular.

It seems as though current feminists think it's a zero-sum game. In order for them to win, men must lose. So we see examples like A Wrinkle in Time and The Last Jedi in which men must be emasculated for women to be strong.

Not everything is playing that game--the Marvel movies aren't playing it (although Marvel comics have been), and the Disney Star Wars animated series have not been playing that game.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,072 posts, read 19,713,491 times
Reputation: 17183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
It seems as though current feminists think it's a zero-sum game. In order for them to win, men must lose. So we see examples like A Wrinkle in Time and The Last Jedi in which men must be emasculated for women to be strong.

Not everything is playing that game--the Marvel movies aren't playing it (although Marvel comics have been), and the Disney Star Wars animated series have not been playing that game.
You're not entirely wrong, but you're painting with an awfully broad brush. I think what you wrote is certainly true of some of the more radical brand of feminists, but hardly everyone who would call themselves a feminist. And I'm not in the camp blaming Kathleen Kennedy for that, since there was definitely an air of mocking of the SJWs in SOLO.

I definitely saw some soap-box preaching in THE LAST JEDI, but that (to me) was more of an annoyance than the fundamental problem. But the movie was just plain badly written all around.

But the whole STAR WARS franchise seems to be suffering from a lack of vision --- or at least the right vision. Watching James Cameron interview George Lucas on AMC's sci-fi series, I noted something Lucas admitted. He said something to the effect of, "I made STAR WARS for twelve year olds, but don't underestimate twelve year olds. They're smarter than we are."

That struck me as a fundamental design principal that the current SW films are lacking. There is a big difference between making child-friendly movies and making childish movies. Episodes VII and VIII in particular have been too childish.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:47 PM
 
17,884 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
You're not entirely wrong, but you're painting with an awfully broad brush. I think what you wrote is certainly true of some of the more radical brand of feminists, but hardly everyone who would call themselves a feminist.
Well, true, that. But the extremists always shape the rhetoric. It was Kathleen Kennedy who sported "The Force is Female" tee-shirt.

Quote:
And I'm not in the camp blaming Kathleen Kennedy for that, since there was definitely an air of mocking of the SJWs in SOLO.
I'm not sure about that. I haven't heard any of the more radical fringe disavow it. Rather, I read this (this from The Mary Sue):

"When I first saw Solo, L3 was by far my favorite character. Her entire arc is a soul-searching, activism-driven adventure disguised as comedic relief. On top of that, she explodes the ongoing question of droid sentience in the Star Wars universe. After L3, how can we look at droids the same way? Where once they appeared to be basically just semi-conscious cute/funny/helpful metal pets and pals, now it’s hard not to see them as forced servants that have, at best, been brainwashed into contentment."

I suspect that the more radical feminists are suffering Archie Bunker Syndrome. They don't know a parody of their cause when they see it.

If, indeed, it is meant to be parody. If indeed, it was meant to be parody by Lord and Miller...I'm not sure Kathleen Kennedy recognized it.

Quote:
I definitely saw some soap-box preaching in THE LAST JEDI, but that (to me) was more of an annoyance than the fundamental problem. But the movie was just plain badly written all around.

But the whole STAR WARS franchise seems to be suffering from a lack of vision --- or at least the right vision. Watching James Cameron interview George Lucas on AMC's sci-fi series, I noted something Lucas admitted. He said something to the effect of, "I made STAR WARS for twelve year olds, but don't underestimate twelve year olds. They're smarter than we are."

That struck me as a fundamental design principal that the current SW films are lacking. There is a big difference between making child-friendly movies and making childish movies. Episodes VII and VIII in particular have been too childish.
That kind of thing was apparent in Disney's A Wrinkle in Time. They took a story that was already written for young girls and dumbed it down enormously, claiming "It's for kids!" It was already for kids, and had been successful with kids for nearly 50 years, yet they dumbed it down. So, for sure, they're underestimating kids like hell.
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