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“Three Identical Strangers” is not an even-handed documentary, it is a totally one-sided polemic. You can't learn anything from it.
The first half hour was sort of heartwarming. The triplets, due to a highly unlikely coincidence, discovered each other. They became media sensations, which they seemed to love, and because of their new found fame, they opened up a successful restaurant.
Then it took a turn. The unsubstantiated accusations, the operatic grandstanding, everybody's “minds being boggled” began, often accompanied by omnibus sounding music.
In no way was it ever proven that the triplets were separated for a scientific experiment. If they would have interviewed adoption experts and other adoption agencies they would have found that separating identical siblings is commonplace. The Louise Wise Adoption Agency was probably following accepted practices. Most likely all that the psychiatrist Neubauer did was to collect data that would otherwise have gone unknown.
The parents were told ahead of time that the adoptees would be studied. If they were told exactly why it would have affected behaviors and would have damaged the study. Contrary to assertions in the “documentary,” the study did the triplets no harm
For some reason, we were led to believe that the triplets should have been told that they had identical brothers. Why? What good would it have done to let them know that somewhere there was somebody who looked like them, but that they would not be told who and where they are.
During adoptions, the birth parents and adoptive parents are told very little about each other. They do not know each others' identities. The adoptive parents are not told about other siblings, identical or otherwise. This is to protect everybody's privacy. The less information given, the more difficult it is for people to butt into others lives. Some adoptive parents don't even want their kids to know they are adopted.
When the triplets finally found their birth mother, they found that she didn't want to be bothered.
It was never told that twin studies, sometimes of identical twins separated at birth, are not unusual. It is not a Nazi thing, as one person said (a strange thing to say when everybody involved was Jewish). There is a famous one in Sweden. If you follow the sciences, you probably know about the Minnesota Twin Studies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnes...n_Family_Study
The adoption agency told the parents that the kids were separated because it is difficult to place a set of triplets. Again, standard practice. Then somebody went back for an umbrella and supposedly saw them toasting champagne. Was it really to celebrate that they had gotten away with something evil as was asserted, or was it more likely that they were celebrating somebody' birthday or something like that.
Then they went to a law firm who reputedly said that they would not take the case because some of their attorneys wanted to adopt children from the agency. If this was true, why didn't they go to another law firm? Most likely they were told that, because the adoption agency did nothing wrong, they had no case.
A big deal was made about the study being sealed until 2065 (the ominous music came to a crescendo when this was revealed). Again, this is done to protect privacy. They don't want every Tom, Dick, and psych major writing a term paper meddling into people's private lives.
I could go on and on about the ridiculousness of the supposed documentary.
It sure got a lot of people riled up, though. Just look at some of the posts in this thread.
Very subjective in my view also people see things from their place in the ethics of a situation as to how one determines in their own mind right or wrong. There will always be those who feel no issue about what they do in feeling they have the right to unquestionably decide what's reasonable to do to others in their mind.
There's plenty of interesting reading material out there that one can post from all day long. Because the files are sealed one can't also disprove much about the triplets in the study and I would have to be able to provide clips from the show to show what brought me to the conclusions I came to about mental illness being a factor in some areas of the researchers picking some of the subjects in the study. I can't say for sure, I may have misunderstood, but, honestly, I've no desire to rewatch the documentary, just not a moment in my day I care to revive. There are dozens of articles to be found if one wishes to search for them to reference comments and ideas from some of the people who participated advancing these twin and other such studies relating to the featured documentary.
I found reading the below article interesting, but, still, it's someone's perspective sprinkled with some, I believe factual information about the studies.
Twins article, good reading in my opinion.
Memories of the Child Development Center
Study of Adopted Monozygotic Twins
Reared Apart: An Unfulfilled Promise
================================================== =============
Below, I posted a link to what I guess someone was referencing about the studies. BTW, because one of the same ethnic backgrounds, doesn't exclude them from doing monstrous things to people of the same ethnic or religious group. We, humans, do horrific things to people we gave birth to every day. Some people could care less about each other on any level. This is one reason we continue to be intrigued by science and human behaviors of various kinds. We are many who have a huge interest in twins/multiples it is fascinating to see identicals especially and watch them interact, no denying that.
... Dr. Josef Mengele's horrific medical experiments using twins, dwarfs and individuals with genetic defects, conducted in the Auschwitz concentration camp between 1943 and 1945 are exemplary (see Segal, 1985a; 2005a). Dr. Viola Bernard's intentional separation of adopted infant twins, and Dr. Peter Neubauer's (Neubauer & Neubauer, 1990) longitudinal study that took unfair advantage of these p. 8 twins and their families also hurt the ability of other researchers to make constructive use of twin research (see Segal 2005b; Perlman, 2005). Another controversy concerned the truthfulness of the reared apart twin IQ data gathered by Cyril Burt, although that situation was ultimately resolved in his favor (Joynson, 1989; Fletcher, 1991). ...
The point about "mental Health" was that
1--the mother of the triplets --there were comments that she might have had history of schezophrenic and that one of the twins was likely schezophrenic--the one who committed suicide but he was never told about his mother's mental health issues--
Which admittedly was a topic not as openly discusses then in the 50s as now
2--two of the brothers were adopted into homes where there were older siblings--also adopted from the same Jewish adoption agency--although not themselves sisters as I remember
The suggestion was made that because of prior knowledge/tracking the agency SHOULD have known that some of the families were not that great as parents--
One father especially was described as cold and not very supportive to his son (and inferred to the adopted daughter) which created negative currents in development
3--while it may have been that the documentary seems to be supportive of the negative perceptions of the adult triplets re the adoption agency regarding their methods
By the times the documentary was made many attitudes about adoption being more open had changed---
The more resistant the adoption agency to the triplets' and other adult children adopted via there the more the agency made itself seem to be covering it up
Many adoption agencies HAVE changed their policies and procedures
Open adoption is much more prelevant and certainly more transparent processes are in place
I think there was little effort or desire to attempt to place more than one brother in a home
That WAS part of the investigation of their growing up
And once they were known to each other--and their parents were know to each other and they found their mother--what was the point in privacy
The only privacy to protect was the Agency's....and the information gathered about the triplets nd their family--which was not very forthcoming from either the parents or the agency
There was really NO legitimate reason not to be transparent at that stage--
They were all adults
Ergo the only reason to withhold info was to protect the doctors and agency personnel...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch
“Three Identical Strangers” is not an even-handed documentary, it is a totally one-sided polemic. You can't learn anything from it.
The first half hour was sort of heartwarming. The triplets, due to a highly unlikely coincidence, discovered each other. They became media sensations, which they seemed to love, and because of their new found fame, they opened up a successful restaurant.
Then it took a turn. The unsubstantiated accusations, the operatic grandstanding, everybody's “minds being boggled” began, often accompanied by omnibus sounding music.
In no way was it ever proven that the triplets were separated for a scientific experiment. If they would have interviewed adoption experts and other adoption agencies they would have found that separating identical siblings is commonplace. The Louise Wise Adoption Agency was probably following accepted practices. Most likely all that the psychiatrist Neubauer did was to collect data that would otherwise have gone unknown.
The parents were told ahead of time that the adoptees would be studied. If they were told exactly why it would have affected behaviors and would have damaged the study. Contrary to assertions in the “documentary,” the study did the triplets no harm
For some reason, we were led to believe that the triplets should have been told that they had identical brothers. Why? What good would it have done to let them know that somewhere there was somebody who looked like them, but that they would not be told who and where they are.
During adoptions, the birth parents and adoptive parents are told very little about each other. They do not know each others' identities. The adoptive parents are not told about other siblings, identical or otherwise. This is to protect everybody's privacy. The less information given, the more difficult it is for people to butt into others lives. Some adoptive parents don't even want their kids to know they are adopted.
When the triplets finally found their birth mother, they found that she didn't want to be bothered.
It was never told that twin studies, sometimes of identical twins separated at birth, are not unusual. It is not a Nazi thing, as one person said (a strange thing to say when everybody involved was Jewish). There is a famous one in Sweden. If you follow the sciences, you probably know about the Minnesota Twin Studies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnes...n_Family_Study
The adoption agency told the parents that the kids were separated because it is difficult to place a set of triplets. Again, standard practice. Then somebody went back for an umbrella and supposedly saw them toasting champagne. Was it really to celebrate that they had gotten away with something evil as was asserted, or was it more likely that they were celebrating somebody' birthday or something like that.
Then they went to a law firm who reputedly said that they would not take the case because some of their attorneys wanted to adopt children from the agency. If this was true, why didn't they go to another law firm? Most likely they were told that, because the adoption agency did nothing wrong, they had no case.
A big deal was made about the study being sealed until 2065 (the ominous music came to a crescendo when this was revealed). Again, this is done to protect privacy. They don't want every Tom, Dick, and psych major writing a term paper meddling into people's private lives.
I could go on and on about the ridiculousness of the supposed documentary.
It sure got a lot of people riled up, though. Just look at some of the posts in this thread.
WHAT? This was, actually, a scientific experiment. The young reddish haired guy was hired to go and document how they grew up in different environments - with at least one growing up in an environment that was sub optimal, to compare how he grew up compared the ones placed in good homes.
The results are sealed, except for a very few cases.
I don't know how you missed this. The agency purposely placed a twin/triplet in what they considered "good" homes, and placed the other in a "bad" home, to measure nature vs nurture.
WHAT? This was, actually, a scientific experiment. The young reddish haired guy was hired to go and document how they grew up in different environments - with at least one growing up in an environment that was sub optimal, to compare how he grew up compared the ones placed in good homes.
The results are sealed, except for a very few cases.
I don't know how you missed this. The agency purposely placed a twin/triplet in what they considered "good" homes, and placed the other in a "bad" home, to measure nature vs nurture.
If you don't think that's evil, well . . . .
Please provide proof of this or I will consider it to be total BS.
Nowhere in the "documentary" was there any proof of this. Just a lot of unsubstantiated accusations.
When did the Louise Wise Adoption Agency, a long time member of the Jewish Community, decide to become EVIL??
Please provide proof of this or I will consider it to be total BS.
Nowhere in the "documentary" was there any proof of this. Just a lot of unsubstantiated accusations.
When did the Louise Wise Adoption Agency, a long time member of the Jewish Community, decide to become EVIL??
They interviewed two people that helped with the study if the triplets. The second part of the documentary discusses they were studying the parenting styles and the children.
They interviewed two people that helped with the study if the triplets. The second part of the documentary discusses they were studying the parenting styles and the children.
What does that have to do with the unsubstantiated claim by the poster that the adoption agency committed evil by intentionally placing a triplet in a bad home?
Anyway, none of the homes were bad, they were just different from each other which is normal.
What does that have to do with the unsubstantiated claim by the poster that the adoption agency committed evil by intentionally placing a triplet in a bad home?
Anyway, none of the homes were bad, they were just different from each other which is normal.
The brothers and those who knew the families considered that one in particular was not very supportive, loving, nurturing—
Of course back then lot of emphasis was placed on economic/educational opportunity vs emotional support—and the man in question was the highest-earner and educated—
He was a doctor—someone whose behavior was likely to be MORE accepted/less-criticized by the scientists supervising the ongoing scientific evaluations of the families’ behavior toward the infants they adopted...
I know that you likely don’t want to consider that the Jewish Adoption Agency involved in this travesty of family service could do anything that might be judged as not ethical but they did
The agency placed MORE value on investigating the psychological and physical effects of adoption in 3 siblings as physically identical as infants could be
It was a perfect Petrie dish to observe and analyze the results
All the people involved referred to the three different emotional quotients in the 3 homes
One of the fathers was regarded as emotionally distant and much more demanding and critical than the other parents
One was regarded as very supportive, loving, open—-
I found this article in NYTimes today
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/w...gtype=Homepage
It is reporting the “systematic” kidnapping of certain immigrants’ infants in Israel’s immigration camps in the earlier years of Israel—when the country was taking in many immigrants from other countries who wanted to repatriate to their religious heritage...
The children taken belonged to a specific ethnic heritage and the process/policies of the government in their kidnapping has been denied by past and current Israeli government...
But apparently it happened—-DNA from “dead” infants now living proves it did...
It is interesting to me because of the conflict between the two strands of Jewish heritage that is found in almost any country with a significant Jewish immigration pattern...
Just as there is conflict within the African American community for hundreds of years about skin shades and how those impact an individual’s self concept and perception by others apparently within the Jewish community there is the same “judgement value” on the two strains-Sephardic and Askenazi (?)—which are referred to in the article as European ancestry and Middle East/North African ancestry...
I have read Michener’s novel “The Source” about the archeological investigation of a “tell” in Israel and the history of evolution tied to that same area... Part of that novel included the issue of the two strands of Jewish heritage and how it developed and impacted the modern (when the novel was written) era of Israel—
Time as passed obviously since the novel was written but the disparate strands apparently are still not any better assimilated in current Israel than they were in Michener’s time...
And while it was not mentioned in the film and I haven’t seen anyone refer to it on this thread or in articles,
I just wondered if there was a difference in the families the three brothers were adopted by—
If the one with the father who was more loving, out-going, supportive was from the Sephardic strain of Jewry?
And if that difference was also part of the scientific investigation going on with other children placed in homes
Last edited by loves2read; 02-20-2019 at 06:57 AM..
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