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Old 07-27-2018, 05:56 AM
 
25,851 posts, read 23,781,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tovarisch View Post
Poignant stories, but they are all still ANECDOTAL. Anyone can come up with an example that does or doesn't prove that smoking causes any disease. Trust the official stats; information is useless without them.
I don't trust any stats any longer....had a friend who worked for a health food store....on their shelves was something that actually helped you quit smoking. The FDA came in without any notice and took that and several other items off the shelves including stock piled cases of the item. And apparently it helped you quit, b/c my friend used it and it worked for him. So?

My son has worked for several cities as a police officer, and their states of crimes never jive...they don't want to report all the crimes, b/c it would deter people from visiting, Philadelphia did it years ago and were caught when a woman decided she was going to press charges for a crime that was committed against her and they went back for the police report and it was gone. They caught Philly doing this...so, I'm sorry, I don't trust those states and polls people do. If it were up to the polls, Hillary would have won the election, but she didn't, but the arse wipes still put out polls. How stupid can you be? I apologize, don't get me started, but people need to wake up and realize, that human beings no longer care about doing what's right any longer, they only care about how they can profit from a situation, and if they can charge triple the amount for a product, they will....
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:50 AM
 
860 posts, read 694,959 times
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If you can trust stats then you can't trust facts and science, and without those, making it through today's world will be tough. As you say, they are not always accurate or perfect, but they are the best we have. Without them, all we have are competing anecdotes, as on this thread.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:51 AM
 
860 posts, read 694,959 times
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I meant if you CAN'T trust stats; sorry.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:58 AM
 
25,851 posts, read 23,781,169 times
Reputation: 15610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovarisch View Post
If you can trust stats then you can't trust facts and science, and without those, making it through today's world will be tough. As you say, they are not always accurate or perfect, but they are the best we have. Without them, all we have are competing anecdotes, as on this thread.
I trust science, however, you've got to remain open minded and think, that your reading someone else's opinion, and today, especially in this world, people are driven by success and winning, profiting off of their beliefs....

I've been fortunate enough to have known people in all walks of life, people who deal with stats and polls and all that crap...so if you wish to believe everything you hear and read fine...I don't and won't. Just b/c someone writes a paper stating that 2nd hand smoke can kill you, doesn't mean it's true. It's what they believe and they are certainly going to push their agenda, especially when people are controlling to the point of wanting to take something away from society....and the media, and the liberals have succeeded to convince a lot of people that all our cancers and health problems are caused by smoking and it's not true, Period.

Just b/c someone smells smoke, from a cig, doesn't mean they're now going to get cancer, for God's sake, but there are some people who actually believe that, and will cross a street, to get away from people smoking. That is down right crazy, but the media, has succeeded to control people using fear....when in fact, there are all kinds of other agents out there repsponsible for cancers and health problems...a combination of other agents and life styles including your parents health history which are passed down to you. It's not all just b/c people smoke and you cannot get cancer by breathing in second hand smoke, unless your penned up in a house, 24/7 with someone who chain smokes in the house.

Am I for no smoking in cars with children, yes, b/c I feel my son smokes today b/c I smoked...but, does it mean they will get cancer, hell No!

Why is it people today are unable to think for themselves, that they have to be told how to think and feel about a thing...and are unable to problem solve and figure out, what is actually in the world around them.

How many people actually wonder about all the toxins out there??????? And yet, they claim you can get cancer from 2nd hand smoke, but never equate all the other dangerous toxins out there, into their blank little minds?

Didn't you ever look at concrete, blacktop, your deck, and all the meds you've taken up to this point in your life, they are chemicals, chemicals, and chemicals are bad...and can be toxic....?????

A dog walks on concrete and blacktop every single day maybe 3 - 6 times a day, then licks his or her paws...????????

You bring in those chemicals and toxins on your shoes....there are toxins in tooth paste for God's sake...in mouth wash, in any food you eat. People spray their lawns with toxins to make them grow or kill bugs...people spray poisons on golf course ponds to kill algea, which leaches into your water tables.

You go to a public pool and their throwing in all kinds of chemicals to kill the bacteria, b/c human beings are too lazy to get out of the pool and use the bathroom. I was a lifeguard when young.....I had ear aches all the time from bacteria in the pools, b/c I swam morning, noon and night.

I haven't even touched base on exhaust from cars, buses, boat motors, hair sprays, hair dyes, etc....your clothes, furniture, all your foods contain chemicals and preservatives....

Think???? For yourself, don't let others do your thinking for you.

so you go ahead and trust your stats, be my guest....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 07-27-2018 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:50 AM
 
7,799 posts, read 8,242,488 times
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If you want to understand the studies and evaluate them, go back to school and take some graduate courses in stats and science. Read the original study and evaluate the methodology. Sometimes, it's pretty obvious that the data is being manipulated to show certain results. No study will show 100 percent certainty because there is always margin for error. A study has to be reliable and valid. Read about the source of who conducted the study and who published it. Some journals have higher standards than others. Second-hand smoke and links to cancer have been studied to death by different agencies using various species of animals and people from different ethnicities and cultures and regions of the world. Discount the agencies that are funded by an organization that has an agenda and published by journals that are also funded by an organization that has an agenda. Try to narrow it down to independent agencies. The studies have to be replicated multiple times by different researchers for results to be accepted. Linking nicotine or other aspects of smoking to various forms of cancer is a common high school science project, especially for the Siemens and Intel competitions.

Don't rely on media. They do exaggerate and make up stuff. Again, read the original studies and learn how to understand them. Then come back here and give your "opinion" with some credibility.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Boonies of N. Alabama
2,496 posts, read 2,203,466 times
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To quote Mark Twain (who was quoting British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli) --
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, d*mned lies, and statistics."
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:05 AM
 
860 posts, read 694,959 times
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I will say again: be a skeptic. If you disdain stats and facts (while acknowledging that sometimes they have an agenda), all you can rely on are your own anecdotal examples. And those won't get you very far. I said above that, because I work with Veterans, it would be easy for me to say that, "Jeez, about 50% or more of people smoke." But no. It's a skewed example, based only on my own observations. A lot of Veterans smoke, yes. But the US keeps good records of this stuff, and we need to go by those. And that's just one example. Go by what you have learned, not by what you feel.
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Old 07-27-2018, 09:09 AM
 
25,851 posts, read 23,781,169 times
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Quote:
Coney If you want to understand the studies and evaluate them, go back to school and take some graduate courses in stats and science. Read the original study and evaluate the methodology.
Been there done that.

Quote:
Sometimes, it's pretty obvious that the data is being manipulated to show certain results. No study will show 100 percent certainty because there is always margin for error.
Yes, indeed they are, some more than not...

Quote:
A study has to be reliable and valid. Read about the source of who conducted the study and who published it. Some journals have higher standards than others.
believe me I have...

Quote:
Second-hand smoke and links to cancer have been studied to death by different agencies using various species of animals and people from different ethnicities and cultures and regions of the world.
of course they have, but it has not yet been proven...that it specifically causes cancer, b/c it doesn't.



Quote:
Discount the agencies that are funded by an organization that has an agenda and published by journals that are also funded by an organization that has an agenda. Try to narrow it down to independent agencies. The studies have to be replicated multiple times by different researchers for results to be accepted. Linking nicotine or other aspects of smoking to various forms of cancer is a common high school science project, especially for the Siemens and Intel competitions.
Journals and studies have been bought and paid for....just like everything else.


Quote:
Don't rely on media. They do exaggerate and make up stuff. Again, read the original studies and learn how to understand them. Then come back here and give your "opinion" with some credibility.
what you have said here in this paragraph I've said many many times, over and over again, but people want to believe what is comfortable to believe. Never mind the fact that someone died from lung cancer at the age of 90 years old? Why it must have been from 2nd hand smoke? Sheesh...

I don't know if they still do it, but the media used a form of brain washing, every time a popular person passed on, they'd always say, He or she smoked, or he or she wasn't wearing seat belts...or studies show? What studies, who performed the studies, what college, how long were the studies performed? And people believe this crap?

Thank you for your feedback....

Last edited by cremebrulee; 07-27-2018 at 09:23 AM..
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:14 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 929,575 times
Reputation: 4814
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee View Post
I'm wondering when the news media will start their studies show against Pot smoking and 2nd hand pot smokers? It will start you know.
Smoking pot will also be hindered in public places, the same as cigarettes.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:22 PM
 
2,513 posts, read 929,575 times
Reputation: 4814
Quote:
Originally Posted by tovarisch View Post
Please share the scientific study links on which you base your claim.
Forum members don't have to provide scientific evidence for anything unless they choose to. There is scientific proof for just about anything, yea or nae. But the reader is perfectly welcome to rebut.
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