Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I just saw this movie yesterday. This era in history is one of my favorites so I was familiar with the "characters" and already interested in the story. My take on the movie is that it was beautifully filmed, well acted, and intriguing - the story of Mary's life is certainly interesting and full of drama and tragedy. I can see how some people would say that the movie drags a bit in the middle - but personally I was never bored with the story, and the filming itself - the costumes, hair, sets, etc - is so lush and interesting that this kept my interest even when there was a bit of a lull in the action.
That being said, like most movies based on historical events, "history" is stretched and even altered in this movie, in my opinion. I'm no expert but here are my observations from the get go:
1. Mary and Elizabeth never met. There is abundant evidence that they never once met in real life, so I don't understand why they did in this film. To me, it added nothing to the story anyway - it's more enigmatic to me that they never met, though both were frustrated by this - and they COULD have, so why didn't they? That's a very interesting twist in their relationship.
Not only that - they were NOT friends. They were rivals. They were both suspicious and jealous of each other.
2. Mary was raised in France - she did not have a Scottish accent. That just bugged me throughout the movie. That being said, she's a fantastic actress and she and Elizabeth were perfectly cast. (Saoirse Ronan was cast as Mary and Margot Robbie was cast as Elizabeth - both were exquisitely perfect for each role in my opinion.)
3. Though the court was portayed as racially diverse - well, it wasn't. It would have been nice if it had been, but it just wasn't.
4. The Earl of Bothwell was really, really, really not a nice guy. He wasn't "morally torn" about his loyalty, or about what to do or how he could "help" his country or whatever. He was a mean, ruthless man and he raped Queen Mary and forced her to marry him, in an age where a woman could be forced into that sort of thing, even if she was a queen.
5. Backing up a bit, I don't believe there is any historical evidence for a homosexual relationship between Rizzio and Darnley - or anything other than gossip that James was fathered by Rizzio and not Darnley.
I think the movie also missed a great opportunity to show just how close Mary was to Rizzio and how traumatic his murder - in her presence - was and how much this devastated her emotionally. She was five or six months pregnant at the time, with Darnley's child, who would become King James one day. Her husband is who apparently orchestrated this murder. The Queen was restrained and overcome by guards - which in and of itself is pretty interesting. I think the movie could have and should have focused more on how Mary's emotional, mercurial personality was her downfall. I mean, it did touch on this but I think that should have been the central point - the difference in, well, management styles, of Elizabeth and Mary. Mary was kindhearted in some ways, but unpredictable as well -loving and forgiving in many ways (perhaps too much so) but also arrogant and dismissive.
What a sad story. What a tragic life she led. She saw her son for the last time when he was only ten months old, though he eventually became King of both Scotland and England, so in that sense she "won," but what a hollow victory.
I thought it was very interesting to see her tomb and Elizabeth's laying in such close proximity in Westminster Abbey. James had his mother's tomb moved there at some point. They were closer in death than they had ever been in life.
Thanks
I will see this so don't care about spoilers
Know that history fairly well too
One point--Agree Mary likely has no Scottish accent but the entire Scottish court had strong French influence and likely spoke French as its "official language"
Have you read the Lord Carey novels set in the north of England--the Borderlands--with an historical personage--cousin to Elizabeth as main character--
set when James was Scotland's king at the end of Elizabeth's reign...
The idea that a script writer could "improve" on history and their stories by creating an event that didn't happen just means to me that person lacks the capacity to actually do the women justice in their own selves...
When Mary opted to marry Darnley IMO she sealed her doom
Even if her child from that marriage became first King of Scotland then King of England after Elizabeth's death--
Mary failed to understand the culture/climate of her times--or perhaps thought she could manipulate the men in her life to escape it.....
Elizabeth knew to marry --anyone--was to relinquish her ultimate power to a man--and prove she was after all, only a woman...she saw her sister destroyed by her marriage to Phillip of Spain so not likely to trust any "foreign prince" to have England's best interests at heart...
And I guess if she couldn't have Robin Dudley--supposedly her "one, true love"-- then no man was worth the risk...
Thanks
I will see this so don't care about spoilers
Know that history fairly well too
One point--Agree Mary likely has no Scottish accent but the entire Scottish court had strong French influence and likely spoke French as its "official language"
Have you read the Lord Carey novels set in the north of England--the Borderlands--with an historical personage--cousin to Elizabeth as main character--
set when James was Scotland's king at the end of Elizabeth's reign...
The idea that a script writer could "improve" on history and their stories by creating an event that didn't happen just means to me that person lacks the capacity to actually do the women justice in their own selves...
When Mary opted to marry Darnley IMO she sealed her doom
Even if her child from that marriage became first King of Scotland then King of England after Elizabeth's death--
Mary failed to understand the culture/climate of her times--or perhaps thought she could manipulate the men in her life to escape it.....
Elizabeth knew to marry --anyone--was to relinquish her ultimate power to a man--and prove she was after all, only a woman...she saw her sister destroyed by her marriage to Phillip of Spain so not likely to trust any "foreign prince" to have England's best interests at heart...
And I guess if she couldn't have Robin Dudley--supposedly her "one, true love"-- then no man was worth the risk...
I agree with all this. And with the dramatic life that Mary led, during such dramatic times, the very idea that some sort of pseudo event had to be added is ridiculous. The real story is even better!
WOW...you are to an expert! You should send this to all reviewers and to the movie producer..
in MY opinion. You,too, loves2read!!
Ha! No, I'm just a Tudor geek. I love European history, especially from the 14th through the 20th centuries -the trajectory is very interesting to me. But then I'm weird and have a head full of facts that have no bearing on my life, and don't make me any money either.
So given your love of Tudor history I am sure you know Margaret Beaufort--mother of Henry I--is even more enigmatic figure than Mary of Scots or her great granddaughter Elizabeth I
So given your love of Tudor history I am sure you know Margaret Beaufort--mother of Henry I--is even more enigmatic figure than Mary of Scots or her great granddaughter Elizabeth I
Oh yes and there were so many interesting figures during those days, especially women. I mean, look at Lady Jane Gray too. ALL of Henry VIII's wives. Like you said, Margaret Beaufort. I just ordered a book about her life! And I realized when I was ordering it that I've never read a full bio on Elizabeth Woodville either, so I ordered a well reviewed one on her as well!
So given your love of Tudor history I am sure you know Margaret Beaufort--mother of Henry I--is even more enigmatic figure than Mary of Scots or her great granddaughter Elizabeth I
It does not bother me when historical dramas take liberties with history. Unless they're documentaries, they are inherently fictionalized. Take the Scottish accent. So? She also didn't speak with an English that would be very intelligible to those of us in the 21st century. The English she spoke was still in the midst of the Great Vowel Shift and a lot would change in the century plus before the time of Shakespeare, which in the original is itself often odd to read and would have sounded odder still in contemporary pronunciation. If that can be accepted - and it is, except to those (are there any?) demanding that 16th century films be rendered in accurate 16th century English (presumably with subtitles for the abundant unfamiliar words, phrases, and renderings) - then why not the Scottish accent?
Historical dramas are meant to entertain, not to teach history.
It does not bother me when historical dramas take liberties with history. Unless they're documentaries, they are inherently fictionalized. Take the Scottish accent. So? She also didn't speak with an English that would be very intelligible to those of us in the 21st century. The English she spoke was still in the midst of the Great Vowel Shift and a lot would change in the century plus before the time of Shakespeare, which in the original is itself often odd to read and would have sounded odder still in contemporary pronunciation. If that can be accepted - and it is, except to those (are there any?) demanding that 16th century films be rendered in accurate 16th century English (presumably with subtitles for the abundant unfamiliar words, phrases, and renderings) - then why not the Scottish accent?
Historical dramas are meant to entertain, not to teach history.
Just so long as people are aware of that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You,too, loves2read!!
