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Old 08-27-2009, 12:00 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
Reputation: 868

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[quote=Mark S.;10453566]

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That's not a fact at all. It's your opinion, and all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.

Fact: When it comes to the studio heads, ALL movies are made for one reason and one reason only: to make money. I don't care if you're talking about the latest Woody Allen or the latest Benigni film. If those guys can't convince some studio exec the movie will turn a profit, it ain't going to get made.

So, are comic-book based movies greenlit in hopes of huge profits? Sure. But so is every movie.

Are comic-book based movies made with zero artistic intention? No.

I don't claim for a moment that there have not been some truly horrid comic-book based movies. But do you REALLY think the director set out saying, "I'm gonna make a crappy movie! It'll be so good for my career!"
what i'm saying is that a lot of directors that make these, Micheal Bay comes to mind, have ZERO talent and it would seem arent thinking about stories or charcters but about a series of action sequences and the story and characters are an afterthought.

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No. Movies turn bad for a number of reasons. Talentless director. A good director mangled by studio interference. Lack of budget. Casting mistakes. Any number of reasons. But let's take a look at just some of the super-hero movies made over the past several years:
good points. i agree.

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The Dark Knight. Smash hit with both critics and audiences. And a great movie.
buuuuulllll$#!+. that movie is the most over-rated peice of garbage i've ever seen. stupid story. stupid characters. great performance by Heath Ledger as the Joker, but not enough to save that movie from being crap. and btw, Commissioner Gordon looked like Ned Flanders.

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Batman Begins. A good film. I wasn't as taken with it as lots of people, but it was by no means a bad movie. Definitely better than any of Burton or Schumacher's efforts from the '90s.
pretty good. i liked it. i own it.

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Iron Man. Smash hit with both critics and audiences. And a great movie. It's not deep, nor is it high art. But it is pure fun from start to finish.
stupid, stupid movie. i think it gets more undue credit for who was in it than for content.

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X-Men. Good movie. Not great, but good. Hampered by last-minute script cuts necessitated by budget cuts.
not bad. i own it.

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X-Men 2. Very good movie. Not perfect, no, but very good.
i thought it sucked. made no sense. just seemed like a series of unrelated scense thrown together.

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X-Men 3. Crapola. But it's crapolaness had nothing to do with it being an X-Men film. It was bad because it was directed by Brett Ratner, a guy who should've stuck to directing hip hop videos.
never saw it.

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Spider-Man. Good movie. Not great, no, but worth a matinee price and two hours of your time.
i like it. i held out for a long time, thinking it would be stupid, but someone talked me into borrowing their DVD and i liked it. i own it.

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Spider-Man 2. Very good movie. Total improvement over its predecessor. Still a tad too silly in places for my taste, but still fun.
frikin' stupid! "go get 'em, tiger..." yech! first one was a lot better.

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Spider-Man 3. And the fruit rots on the vine. What happened here? No idea. It seemed to me that the director had a passion for one movie, but his studio forced him to make another.
never saw it.

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The Incredibles. Anyone who can sit through this movie and not break into a big, idiot grin needs to go take some happy pills. One of the greatest animated films ever made.
this is my favorite animated film. the same guy that made this did The Iron Giant. i didnt know that this was based on a comic book. there is a difference between comic-based and super hero based, right?

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The Incredible Hulk. A good movie. Not great, no. The studio butchered the script and demanded edits that took out most of the character depth. But still fun.
never saw it.

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HULK (the Ang Lee film). Too artsy for the comic-book fans and not comic-book for the art fans. Still a good film.
didnt like it.

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Then you get the truly horrid stuff like Daredevil, Elekra, and the Fantastic Four.
i'm sure they're all horrible.

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But look at that batting average. Many more good to great films than bad.
ummm not so fast...
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:03 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
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btw, my favorite comic-based movie (besides The Crow) is The Punisher. i like that movie a lot.
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ - The mountains are free here.
641 posts, read 1,272,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
btw, my favorite comic-based movie (besides The Crow) is The Punisher. i like that movie a lot.

lol -- well here's the problem.
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Old 08-27-2009, 04:02 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
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Originally Posted by JillBoBill View Post
lol -- well here's the problem.
explain.
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Maine
8,512 posts, read 11,203,359 times
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Hating The Dark Knight and Iron Man and X2 but liking The Punisher is like hating the Beatles and the Stones and the Who but loving The Monkees.

The Incredibles was not based on a comic book per se. (Although it's pretty obvious it was HEAVILY influenced by the Fantastic Four comics of the '60s. The last scene is a total, blatant homage.) But it definitely falls into the category of "super hero" movie. And yes, it is brilliant. It and The Iron Giant are not only my favorite animated films, they'd make my Top 10 list of all time favorite films of any genre.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:50 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Hating The Dark Knight and Iron Man and X2 but liking The Punisher is like hating the Beatles and the Stones and the Who but loving The Monkees.
B.S.

The Punisher is a cool movie. it has some great action sequences, but the story is not just loosly held together by them. and it has a good cast. overall, a good revenge movie, which is a lot more than can be said for X-Men 2, Batman 6, or Iron Man.

Take out the 15 minutes of screen time that is Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and tell me what else you liked about Batman 6. i honestly believe that people tend to ignore the fact that The Dark Knight was a piece of crap.

in Iron Man, why were the terrorists on a rampage, and why did Jeff Bridges' character want to kill Robert Downy Jr - the heart and soul of his billion dollar company?

and from a story telling standpoint, and a quality standpoint, what in X-Men 2 was an improvement over the first one? and what the hell was going on in that film? seriously. i've seen it twice and i still dont know.

i can tell you the reasons why i dont like the movies that you (and a lot of other people) seem to think are so great and the reasons i do like The Punisher. basically you can take what i like about The Punisher and say the opposite for those other movies.

and btw, i love the Stones and i dont care for the Beatles.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:58 PM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Superman Returns? Yeah, it was pretty awful. No doubt. I don't know that I've ever managed to stay awake through the whole thing. But the worst movie your ever saw? You need to see more movies. Go rent Beaches sometime.
i said it was one of the worst movies i ever saw. worst movie i ever saw, Robot Jox comes to mind. also, You Got Served made me tap out faster than any movie. i think i only lasted about two minutes. the dialogue was unbelievably horrible. people just dont talk like that - i dont care how street they are.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Maine
8,512 posts, read 11,203,359 times
Reputation: 7425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
The Punisher is a cool movie. it has some great action sequences, but the story is not just loosly held together by them. and it has a good cast. overall, a good revenge movie,
The Punisher suffered from being mediocre. Great cast, yes, but the script never shone and the direction was just sorta meh. I mightíve enjoyed it more had it been worse. As it was, it was just kind of vanilla. Not bad, but very forgettable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
tell me what else you liked about Batman 6.
It was a well written, superbly directed action/adventure story that explored the nature of evil, and the temptation to embrace evil means to fight it. Was it a perfect film? No. I had my quibbles. But it was one of the best films the super hero genre has given us, and it was one of the best films to come out last year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
Iron Man, why were the terrorists on a rampage,
Donít watch the news much, do you?

Seriously, that's like watching The Dirty Dozen and complaining, "The director never establishes why they're fighting the Germans." A good storyteller knows not to spend too much time showing the obvious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
and why did Jeff Bridges' character want to kill Robert Downy Jr - the heart and soul of his billion dollar company?
Because despite his brilliance, he was a public embarrassment who in the corporate scheme of things was very dangerous to his company.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
and from a story telling standpoint, and a quality standpoint, what in X-Men 2 was an improvement over the first one?
Everything. Pacing, casting, pathos, writing, etc. Pretty much everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Linson View Post
and btw, i love the Stones and i dont care for the Beatles.
Iím with you on that one! I wouldnít go so far as to say I donít care for the Beatles, but I much prefer the Stones.

But the Who beats them both.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ - The mountains are free here.
641 posts, read 1,272,332 times
Reputation: 321
I'm not really interested in going back and forth with you, Linson. I already told you that. I don't understand people that insist on bickering like this - what's the point? If I argue with you enough will you change your mind? No. It becomes a matter of 'who's the more stubborn *******'.

No thanks.

But, Mark S put it very nicely because, seriously, really.... Punisher? Come the **** on. I'm not even going to touch on how you've watched XMen 2 twice (once wasn't bad enough?) or why you would ever consider - even if you were incredibly stoned or very, very ill with the flu - watching You Got Served. You're clearly trying to punish yourself for something.


On a side note, I learned to play 'Hey, hey, we're the Monkees' on a piano in high school.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:49 AM
 
1,943 posts, read 3,448,092 times
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[quote=JillBoBill;10508031]

Quote:
I'm not really interested in going back and forth with you, Linson. I already told you that. I don't understand people that insist on bickering like this - what's the point? If I argue with you enough will you change your mind? No. It becomes a matter of 'who's the more stubborn *******'.

No thanks.
yet here we both are. and the original point of contention wasnt even what is wrong with The Punisher (which youve not been able to articulate anything on your own), but that i treated you unfairly and called you a nerd. i say i treated you fairly, and like an adult by simply asking why you are getting excited over a bunch of movies that anyone with any common sense could naturally assume would be drek based on the track record of the genre.



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I'm not even going to touch on how you've watched XMen 2 twice (once wasn't bad enough?)
because the first time i saw it, it was on a bad bootleg with bad sound, so i attributed the movie being so hard to follow to that. turns out, it's just a crap movie.

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or why you would ever consider - even if you were incredibly stoned or very, very ill with the flu - watching You Got Served. You're clearly trying to punish yourself for something.
it was on TV and i found it while flipping through channels. the only reason i tuned in momentarilly is because i love the South Park episode that lampoons the movie.
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