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It would be helpful to the discussion if contributors would move beyond the view of hip-hop that is offered by the Top 40 charts.
Many of those artists are abhorrent and just plain bad.
But Top 40 rappers do not define hip-hop.
Anyone interested in hip-hop will need to do some research of their own - there is a whole world of music out there that has nothing to do with Eminem, 50 Cent, Master P, etc.
I agree that like all genres, the most interesting and inspiring things going on in hip hop, tend to be on the underground. However, the reason why I and others seem to be naming mainstream artists is because they are the ones who reach more people and therefore have a more broad cultural impact, whether for the positive or the negative. In the instance of the thread's topic, the negative. Their messages, beats, values and lyrics not only reach far more people across the globe, but their success encourages other rappers to follow their same vein and for music producers and record labels to try to emulate them and find the "next 50 Cent" rather than the next Lupe Fiasco.
That said... if I had to say "who ruined rap music" I'd have to say it all started with N.W.A. They are the ones who mainstreamed the idea of turning rap from a running social commentary about the plight and conditions of the urban black underclass into a value-neutral first-person narrative of drug use, drug dealing, violence, crass materialism and disrespecting (as opposed to "merely" objectifying) women. The social commentary that acts like Grand Master Flash and Public Enemy railed against ("these things aren't good, let's fight to fix them") somehow transformed into expectations and even ambitions with the next wave of rap artists. At least, that's how I see it from a cultural perspective. And that's hard to square with how I see it from an artistic perspective, because NWA and its fissile particles (Eazy E, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube) made huge strides in the artistic element of rap. Talk about a double-edged sword.
Last edited by christina0001; 12-09-2007 at 01:27 PM..
Reason: widowed/referenced posts deleted
The decline of East Coast Hip-Hop killed Hip-Hop overall. Well mainstream hip hop at least. The stuff coming out of the south with a few exceptions is pretty much all garbage. 50-Cent gets a lot of blame because he pretty much is East Coast Hip-Hop these days and he sucks. Some people blame the change in the sampling rules which made it more expensive to sample music as this really put a damper on east coast type of rap which relied heavily on samples.
That said... if I had to say "who ruined rap music" I'd have to say it all started with N.W.A. They are the ones who mainstreamed the idea of turning rap from a running social commentary about the plight and conditions of the urban black underclass into a value-neutral first-person narrative of drug use, drug dealing, violence, crass materialism and disrespecting (as opposed to "merely" objectifying) women.
The social commentary that acts like Grand Master Flash and Public Enemy railed against ("these things aren't good, let's fight to fix them") somehow transformed into expectations and even ambitions with the next wave of rap artists. At least, that's how I see it from a cultural perspective. And that's hard to square with how I see it from an artistic perspective, because NWA and its fissile particles (Eazy E, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube) made huge strides in the artistic element of rap. Talk about a double-edged sword.
Yes.. what this guy said. I agree.
Rap lost a good bit of its cultural, political, and educational value along the way. They used to rap about injustice, hardship, and the struggle. Now its greed, materialism, and misogyny.
But from a musical perspective - I love funk, so I agree that NWA advanced the musical aspect of rap.
I wouldn't say that he's responsible single-handedly for destroying hip hop (nor do I think it's been destroyed), but if I had to pick one rapper who represents more than any other the negatives of hip hop, it would be 50 Cent.
50 Cent to me is the Britney Spears of rap. That is to say that, like Britney Spears, there is absolutely nothing remarkable about him in terms of talent, charisma, looks or voice. Some rappers are known for their witty wordplay (Ludacris, Eminem), their unique flow (Snoop Dogg, Nelly), their sociopolitical commentary (Nas, Mos Def), or their innovative music (Kanye West, Outkast, The Roots); and to me, 50 Cent has none of those things. His rap skills are unremarkable, the beats to his songs are virtually all the same and the subject doesn't change from the rap stereotypes of pimps, drugs, women, flashing wealth and violence. Quite a few of the artists I mentioned earlier do the same, but they at least have some sort of saving grace usually in that they have something that makes them unique whereas I feel like you could take almost any kid out of a housing project in Jamaica, Queens and with the right producers, handlers and trainers turn him into a "50 Cent" (which is the same way I feel about Britney Spears).
There are plenty of other artists in hip hop who I have similar criticisms of. Hip hop is rife with one hit wonders who record a song about ass-shaking, have it shoot to the top of the charts, release a platinum album full of generic rap and then fall off the face of the Earth. T-Pain, Juvenile, Lil Jon, Ja Rule, Soulja Boy, MIMS, Mystikal. I could go on and on. The reason why I pick on 50 Cent more than these guys is the sole reason that he has sold more records than any of them and continues to have a stellar career. More than any other rapper, he has made a career out of generic mediocrity and that's why I think he's the poster boy for what is wrong with the state of hip hop music today. No other rapper to me has been able to stretch their lack of talent as far as he has.
He's unremarkable in every way. I can't help thinking that if he wasn't shot 8 times or whatever, no one would even remember his name. But, since he HAS been shot many times (so they say), he is real.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJickler
He's unremarkable in every way. I can't help thinking that if he wasn't shot 8 times or whatever, no one would even remember his name. But, since he HAS been shot many times (so they say), he is real.
i think 50's feud with ja rule had more to do with the sucess of his career.
check out this link: it examines hip-hop at its current crossroads
BET.com - BET.com | On TV | Hip Hop vs. America (http://www.bet.com/OnTV/hhva.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnp ublished - broken link)
How about which record label giant is most responsible for the destruction of hip hop, as well as mass television media outlet (oops there is only one which controls television), that's the "real" question and issue that needs to be addressed
How about which record label giant is most responsible for the destruction of hip hop, as well as mass television media outlet (oops there is only one which controls television), that's the "real" question and issue that needs to be addressed
Why does that need to be addressed?
All record labels are looking for opportunities to make money and they will spend much $ to direct the culture towards their product.
It's impossible to blame one (or even several) for destroying hip-hop, because hip-hop is not "destroyed".
Everybody should buy the music that they like.
If the majority decides to buy crappy music then let them have it.
I'll continue to buy good hip-hop which cannot be killed by a record label or by other artists.
Why does that need to be addressed?
All record labels are looking for opportunities to make money and they will spend much $ to direct the culture towards their product.
It's impossible to blame one (or even several) for destroying hip-hop, because hip-hop is not "destroyed".
Of course hip-hop is not really destroyed.
It's just making a lateral, commercial move.
The way the music business now operates, it makes it much harder for up-and-comers. The opportunity structure for musical artists today is not nearly the same as in the 70's.
Quote:
Everybody should buy the music that they like.
If the majority decides to buy crappy music then let them have it.
I'll continue to buy good hip-hop which cannot be killed by a record label or by other artists.
That's nice for you and for other in-the-know people.
But wouldn't it be nicer for all listeners if record companies were less greedy, and more discriminating?
I know everyone should buy what they like, and not what Pitchfork Review or a music video tells you, but it is a shame when profit so ruthlessly rules an industry.
Record companies are the middleman between artists and their fans, and they certainly have set up the system to make a hell of a lot of money--much more than the artists.
Things have changed and continue to change with music being available on the internet, and it has been interesting to watch.
Of course hip-hop is not really destroyed.
It's just making a lateral, commercial move.
The way the music business now operates, it makes it much harder for up-and-comers. The opportunity structure for musical artists today is not nearly the same as in the 70's.
I don't really follow you.
I have only been buying music since the mid-late 80s and the industry has always looked the same to me. The growth or development of all genres has generally occurred outside of it. Were record labels more truly interested in good music in the 70s?
Quote:
That's nice for you and for other in-the-know people.
Thanks - it is great for me. But I never did anything extraordinary to find good music. Just always had an interest that compelled me to read about it, look around used bins, etc. That method is open to everybody.
Quote:
But wouldn't it be nicer for all listeners if record companies were less greedy, and more discriminating?
I guess so. But to me that's like saying "war would be much nicer if less soldiers got killed by them". It's a given - and also impossible.
And one thing that I care less about than the big labels is the group of people who don't know how to look beyond it. Why don't they?
Basically the big-business aspect of music is something I've always ignored and I reap the rewards. I don't even really know what 50 Cent sounds like, nor do I care. If a friend lent me some 50 Cent and it was really good - I wouldn't hesitate to buy his music from a big, greedy corporation. But I've got plenty of good hip-hop already so I'm not watching BET to get ideas.
So, COMMERCIALLY, hip-hop may have stayed flat and lifeless (like I say, I don't really know) but, again, who cares about commercial rap?
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I agree.
Couldn't have said it better myself
), that's the "real" question and issue that needs to be addressed
