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I'm not sure I'm ready to categorize Zepplin as heavy metal. To me, they're the bridge between heavy metal and blues without categorically being either. Their themes were typically blues-oriented, dealing most often with love, loss/heartbreak plus some travel/adventure themes, and the like. Black Sabbath's themes were much darker (vengeance, war, mental instability, drug use, etc.) and their sound was (pardon the pun) consistently heavier. I regard Zepplin as more of a precursor to heavy metal, whereas Sabbath was the first consistently heavy metal band. Same goes for The Pixies: a precursor to grunge without actually being grunge. I guess I'd categorize them as "surf-rock." While they had a heavy sound, their themes and music were generally more upbeat (with some exceptions, of course) than the "woe is white middle-class me" crap that grunge indulged in when it hit its stride.
Zepplin did personify heavy metal no doubt with led zepp 2, which certainly has the heaviest playing of their career. They went acoustic/folk on 3, and on a totally tangential/british folk/lyrically druid/blues hybrid with their best, 4(unnamed).....The difference between Sabbath and Zeppelin is that Sabbath remained the same(no pun intended to Zeppelin), while Zep grew and went far beyond their heavy metal roots. Everything is ultimately a ripoff of the Chicago blues scene anyway, per Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf, Willie Dixon (who wrote Whole Lotta Love, and later sued for songwriting credit), and so on. Good observation by drover about how grunge got more nihilistic as time went on, which was gleamed more from Sabbath, Candlemass, and Slayer than anything Zeppelin ever did. I guess my point is that at one short time Zepp and Sabbath were on the same plane, just one little point, with the paranoid/Zep II albums, after which they both branched out to much different things.....I would say that Grunge got much of their nihilism from Sabbath songs such as "Planet Caravan", "Sweet Leaf", and such, rather than the unbeat, by comparison, "Iron man" and "Paranoid". Finally, if you want an absolutely pure Heavy Metal band, by a group that sounded essentially the same from the day they first recorded to the present day (which shows you how far they progressed), you might want to namedrop Judas Priest........no satanic, black magic, or fantasy themes, just balls to the walls heavy metal 24/7!
Zepplin did personify heavy metal no doubt with led zepp 2, which certainly has the heaviest playing of their career. They went acoustic/folk on 3, and on a totally tangential/british folk/lyrically druid/blues hybrid with their best, 4(unnamed).....The difference Sabbath and Zeppelin is that Sabbath remained the same(no pun intended to Zeppelin), while Zep grew and went far beyond their heavy metal roots. Everything is ultimately a ripoff of the Chicago blues scene anyway, per Muddy Waters, Howling Wolf, Willie Dixon (who wrote Whole Lotta Love, and later sued for songwriting credit), and so on. Good observation by drover about how grunge got more nihilistic as time went on, which was gleamed more from Sabbath, Candlemass, and Slayer than anything Zeppelin ever did. I guess my point is that at one short time Zepp and Sabbath were on the same plane, just one little point, with the paranoid/Zep II albums, after which they both branched out to much different things.....I would say that Grunge got much of their nihilism from Sabbath songs such as "Planet Caravan", "Sweet Leaf", and such, rather than the unbeat, by comparison, "Iron man" and "Paranoid". Finally, if you want an absolutely pure Heavy Metal band, by a group that sounded essentially the same from the day they first recorded to the present day (which shows you how far they progressed), you might want to namedrop Judas Priest........no satanic, black magic, or fantasy themes, just balls to the walls heavy metal 24/7!
So where does Frank Black , or ABBA for that matter fit in with all that??
I`ve every Pixies album my friend..I have also every ABBA album..If we are to duel then I leave it to you, if it is to be so be it!!
LOL! Okay, not sure of your point, because you just troll on here with short little comments, and don't write any posts of your own. I'll concede the Abba-pixies connection to you, but I would love to see a longer version of your musical belief, loves, hates, whathaveyou.....Its easy just to snip with one or two sentence replies to other posts, but a hell of a lot harder to actually type on here an extended post on your musical philosophy. Let's switch roles, how about it? You write the posts and create the topics and I'll kick in with short ribbings and asides.....the floor is all yours, my friend!
Speaking of the floor, after reading a few tidbits on this thread and THEN torturing myself watching the Broncos getting their brains beat in by the Raiders(OOPS-wrong thread), I came to the conclusion that I had more fun last Monday at the dentist office getting a root canal. Or, as one Monty Python so aptly put 30 some years ago on one of his early LP's, who said it best. "This is a putrid pile of parrot droppings!"
LOL! Okay, not sure of your point, because you just troll on here with short little comments, and don't write any posts of your own. I'll concede the Abba-pixies connection to you, but I would love to see a longer version of your musical belief, loves, hates, whathaveyou.....Its easy just to snip with one or two sentence replies to other posts, but a hell of a lot harder to actually type on here an extended post on your musical philosophy. Let's switch roles, how about it? You write the posts and create the topics and I'll kick in with short ribbings and asides.....the floor is all yours, my friend!
If you bother to look back through my posts you will get a pretty good idea of my musical tastes..The simple fact is that unlike some I don`t go in for spouting pretentious drivel. There was enough of that in the NME over the years without having to swallow such bull through these forums,,
I wouldn't classify Candlebox as grunge,they are pretty much mainstream rock sound with bluesy mixed in.The guitar player is real good btw.
Basically I classify grunge guitar players as sloppy lead players (if they did it at all) while hammering out good rythyms.Thr grunge era was pretty deppressing to me as a guitar player coming out of the "virtuoso" 80's.In fact I quit playing around that time for a while,though the music scene was not solely responsible for that but.It seemed like the cliche of grunge was you had to be depressed about life or something.
Funny,these days though I like playing some covers of that era.
If you bother to look back through my posts you will get a pretty good idea of my musical tastes..The simple fact is that unlike some I don`t go in for spouting pretentious drivel. There was enough of that in the NME over the years without having to swallow such bull through these forums,,
I think just the mere act of writing down "opinions" per any art, be it theater, music, painting, whatnot, is pretentious by default. Any critic of the arts is pretentious, from Roger Ebert on down, by attempting to spin something that really doesn't have to be spun. They say that truly great people don't write history, as they are too busy creating it. The same could be said for the arts, particularly music. Hendrix, the great blues singers, Elvis, you name it, didn't have to put pen on paper, as they were too busy creating music to write about it. The only pretentious folk are you and I who write about music without creating it. And thats the God's truth. Mark Twain once had a great line, which I think explains it all...."Everyone talks about the weather, but nobody does a damn thing about it" If that doesn't make sense at first reading, fire up a good joint and read it again.........peace, y'all...............
Just thought of something.....would not commentating on a comment that is pretentious be regressive, bordering on total loss of meaning and context at that point? I wonder what Nietzsche would have thought of that in one of his more brooding moments......LOL!
< Pretentious>,, <the pretentious fraud who assumes a love of culture that is alien to him — Richard Watts...
Well thats one mans thought..My own?? Why use 20 words when I can use 2,000. Thereby attempting to baffle with science, generally muddy the water, and hopefully hide the fact I haven`t a clue what I`m rambling about.
I don`t think an opinion in itself is pretentious. but the less succinct that opinion is the stronger the smell of you know what...I`ll stop there as it`s starting to smell...
On a side note, I never considered AIC to be grunge, more like dark metal.
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