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Old 01-09-2019, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Itinerant
5,674 posts, read 3,940,416 times
Reputation: 4350

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Guitar mills like North Texas, Berkeley, GTI, Miami (Dixie Dregs) to name a few are churning out young Guitar players who teach because the field is too crowded. One guy told me his college had over 125 rock Guitar majors and it was shoot out at OK Corral every day. They say it’s not playing the stuff that matters it's thinking it up first. So playing along with any guitar god is simply expected in those circles. You can always find a guy in those schools who can play exactly like (insert guitar hero) but he knows it won’t do him any good in getting a record deal.
BS. Your guys who told you list is getting longer and longer.

Sure Berkeley, or Juilliard and so on are going to have hundreds of guitar majors, some of those majors are going into rock/metal, not hundreds.Of those I'll betcha dollars to donuts less than 10% can play eighths at 130bpm clean (approx 5 notes/second). Sure you can find 'a' guy who plays like Petrucci, maybe, one, so 5 guys a year tops might have chops like Petrucci, it's not many out of 350M possible candidates.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
The use of the Tri-Tone in Smoke on the Water opened up Rock Music to something new that Metalica re-explored a generation later. Jimi used a chord with a Maj 3rd and a Min 3rd in Purple Haze those are things are easily copied but it takes genius to think of.
Which shows your ignorance. Smoke on the Water (1972) uses a Phrygian diminished 2nd, you are thinking about Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler using the Diminished 5th/Augmented 4th (commonly tritone) in 1969 on their self titled Black Sabbath track. Hendrix actually uses the same dim 5th/Aug 4th in Purple Haze (1967) by harmonizing with the bass guitar playing E and Hendrix playing a Bb (go look at the interval on a staff) but it was Iommi/Butler who popularized it, and used it as a straight guitar chord and it's derived from Gustav Holst, not Hendrix.

Sorry, but you blew any credibility you may have had, because Smoke doesn't use a tritone, and it's after Black Sabbath (band and track) and Hendrix use of it in Haze, which you're saying is a Maj/Min 3rd switch (It's not), or just switching modes, which to be honest is VERY common, suppose your song is in F# Major, ok many solos in F# Major are going to use B Mixolydian, because it's a perfect 5th lower than the root key. The Major scale BTW is Ionian mode, and natural Minor scale is Aeolian so F# Major has D minor as it's relative minor, and B Mixolydian as it's Mixolydian mode. So you can easily switch between F# Major, D natural Minor, and B Mixolydian, and probably have no one notice, but a B Mixolydian adds a slightly exotic switch up for a solo for it to stand out against the main refrain.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:05 PM
 
9,049 posts, read 9,879,331 times
Reputation: 6926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
BS. Your guys who told you list is getting longer and longer.

Sure Berkeley, or Juilliard and so on are going to have hundreds of guitar majors, some of those majors are going into rock/metal, not hundreds.Of those I'll betcha dollars to donuts less than 10% can play eighths at 130bpm clean (approx 5 notes/second). Sure you can find 'a' guy who plays like Petrucci, maybe, one, so 5 guys a year tops might have chops like Petrucci, it's not many out of 350M possible candidates.




Which shows your ignorance. Smoke on the Water (1972) uses a Phrygian diminished 2nd, you are thinking about Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler using the Diminished 5th/Augmented 4th (commonly tritone) in 1969 on their self titled Black Sabbath track. Hendrix actually uses the same dim 5th/Aug 4th in Purple Haze (1967) by harmonizing with the bass guitar playing E and Hendrix playing a Bb (go look at the interval on a staff) but it was Iommi/Butler who popularized it, and used it as a straight guitar chord and it's derived from Gustav Holst, not Hendrix.

Sorry, but you blew any credibility you may have had, because Smoke doesn't use a tritone, and it's after Black Sabbath (band and track) and Hendrix use of it in Haze, which you're saying is a Maj/Min 3rd switch (It's not), or just switching modes, which to be honest is VERY common, suppose your song is in F# Major, ok many solos in F# Major are going to use B Mixolydian, because it's a perfect 5th lower than the root key. The Major scale BTW is Ionian mode, and natural Minor scale is Aeolian so F# Major has D minor as it's relative minor, and B Mixolydian as it's Mixolydian mode. So you can easily switch between F# Major, D natural Minor, and B Mixolydian, and probably have no one notice, but a B Mixolydian adds a slightly exotic switch up for a solo for it to stand out against the main refrain.


You're trying too hard to make like you know music theory. When I worked in a guitar shop every middle school guitar kid came in and played smoke on the water and stair way to heaven. That stuff just isn't Paganini.

I've got graduate degrees in Classical Theory and post graduate work in analytical techniques and am reading Schenkerian analysis now. The fun about spending eight years in a guitar shop is the dozens of no name hot guitar players that come and play the a$$ end off a guitar and walks out. I always ask them what was that, they always say the same thing," meh, a bunch of crap."

How many you tube clips are there of some guy playing on the street like someones guitar hero and doing it for free? The worst part was some one wanting you to hear a song they wrote.

Last edited by thriftylefty; 01-09-2019 at 07:53 PM..
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:32 PM
 
5,050 posts, read 4,845,856 times
Reputation: 9402
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post

The worst part was some one wanting you to hear a song they wrote.

"Wrote a song about it. Like to hear it? Here it goes..."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoKfJngcLfw
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Summit, NJ
1,419 posts, read 1,313,323 times
Reputation: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Sometimes it works out best that way. Elton and Bernie.
Remember that Elton did write his music. To me "writing songs" means both melodies and words. Bernie wrote the words.

I basically say "yes" in the contrapositive: I think more of a musician when they do write their own (good) material.

I was just looking at Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison album, one of the very most iconic country albums, and it's only 1/3 originals.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:38 AM
 
9,049 posts, read 9,879,331 times
Reputation: 6926
In 60's there was such a new bunch of singers and groups that gave songwriters people with great voices. Some of the songs written probably were okay but having the new singing groups to sing those songs made them hits. IMO Sting or John Hiatt don't have particularly great voices but they are among the top song writers. Good writers will always need people who have great voices but can't write. I think the three legged stool of the business is the writer, singer and producer. People like Michael Jackson are extremely rare.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:50 PM
Status: "POTUS Trump promises - not hot air" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
14,275 posts, read 5,647,832 times
Reputation: 11380
Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
Remember that Elton did write his music. To me "writing songs" means both melodies and words. Bernie wrote the words.

I basically say "yes" in the contrapositive: I think more of a musician when they do write their own (good) material.

I was just looking at Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison album, one of the very most iconic country albums, and it's only 1/3 originals.
Elton disclosed in a 1972 or 1973 interview that he did write the lyrics for the final verse of "Border Song."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton John Lyrics
I'm going back to the border
Where my affairs, my affairs ain't abused
I can't take any more bad water
Been poisoned from my head down to my shoes
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Old 01-12-2019, 03:46 PM
 
20,952 posts, read 16,091,954 times
Reputation: 7997
It doesn't matter to me whether a singer writes his or her own songs or not. Singers sing. Song writers write songs. A good vocalist can make a good song sound great no matter who wrote it.
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Old Today, 12:04 PM
 
24 posts, read 2,478 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It doesn't matter to me whether a singer writes his or her own songs or not. Singers sing. Song writers write songs. A good vocalist can make a good song sound great no matter who wrote it.
Thats my opinion as well, a singer who sings great a song, brings that song to life, no matter if the one singing it wrote the song or not. So no I dont think less of singers who just sing the song, in fact singers who can truly sing without autotune or any technological help are to be celebrated in my opinion.
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Old Today, 01:28 PM
 
121 posts, read 13,211 times
Reputation: 150
Yes, although they can salvage a lot of respect by making the song their own.

Those who write and perform their own work have naturally commanded more respect than those who just perform. What set the Beatles apart wasn't the way they performed, they were good but not the best, instead it was their ability to effortlessly write one hit after another that made them stand out.

Last edited by PossiblyIndecisive; Today at 01:36 PM..
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Old Today, 02:58 PM
Status: "Just Spitballin here Boss Tyranny of good manners" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Houston, texas
14,866 posts, read 10,416,470 times
Reputation: 11183
No indeed. Just as great songwriters can pack a line with a lot of syllables great singers manage to sound as if they're discovering that line for the first time. "Now there's something groovy and good 'bout whatever we've got".
The Beatles, Zep and countless heavy-hitters have established career songbooks built around re-writes of someone else's material.
I've never written a song so what do I know? I have however listened to billions of songs so I have a point of view. It seems to me a good pop tune has a perfect balance between familiarity and strangeness, no matter who writes it.

Last edited by soupson1; Today at 03:26 PM..
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