Why do people hate rap? Enough with the BS. (vocals, records, lyrics)

[JHG722]

Originally Posted by AONE

Actually it is musically uninteresting. "rhyming" is the mentality of an 8 year old. The poorrr understanding of music among Rap "stars" leads to undeveloped, repetative and uninteresting "music" and I use the term loosely. I don't find the degrading talk of any benefit to society. I don't need The N word, F word or women referred to as B's or hoes. The rappers simply degrade themselves and reveal their ignorance.

I'd say stereotyping an entire genre of music is more immature, actually...

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by desertsun41

It's about the hat which they insist on wearing backwards or sideways. If Joe Cap knew how his invention was worn today he would turn over in his grave.

What era are you quoting from? I don't think I've seen anyone wear their hat backward or sideways since the Fresh Prince? Most rappers I've seen perform usually wear fitted hats right over their brows??? I don't know why I even asked - I'm sure there's ONE out there who does it and if I've learned anything from CD it's whatever one person does somehow becomes representative of the whole group; unless it's positive. If I was to point out a well-dressed rapper I'm sure someone would say "well he's one of the few" "he's the exception"

Silly rapper! Turn that hat around!


NO 50! TURN YOUR HAT AROUND! ALL RAPPERS WEAR THEIR HATS BACKWARD! DIDN'T YOU GET THE MEMO?!?!?

Oh and FYI - backwards is not a word. One of the biggest complaints people have about rappers is they make up words so we should make sure we only use words in the dictionary.

[noid_1985]

Natalay,

name some decently dressed rappers for me....I'll start Jay Z, P. Diddy, Nas, Common, Talib Kweli

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by noid_1985

Natalay,

name some decently dressed rappers for me....I'll start Jay Z, P. Diddy, Nas, Common, Talib Kweli

I don't always like what Diddy wears - some of his Sean Jean stuff is ugly but I guess he is still properly dressed. Now are we talking about dressed decently when they're performing or just out and about - like doing interviews etc. I don't think it would be fair to judge while they're performing since most pop stars don't walk around in brightly colored sparkle dresses on an everyday basis

[noid_1985]

Originally Posted by natalayjones

Now are we talking about dressed decently when they're performing or just out and about - like doing interviews etc.

Just out and about

[Tungsten_Udder]

I can maybe give some insight into another perspective on this.

While I do not dislike hip-hop--I actually like a large percentage of it okay--unless the approach to it changes a lot, I also can't imagine finding many hip-hop records that would ever be one of my favorite records rather than just "it's okay".

Why is that?

Well, it has absolutely nothing to do with what the lyrics are about. Rather, it has to do with the fact that lyrics are such a focus, period.

I do not see the semantic content of lyrics as a part of music per se. I tend to listen to vocals just like I'd listen to an instrument like a horn--like a saxophone, a trumpet, etc. I tend hear vocals purely as sound--vocalists might as well be singing in a language that I do not understand, I'd evaluate the music in exactly the same way.

So my frustration with hip-hop is that there is such an emphasis on lyrics, often at the expense of the other musical content. There's often relatively little going on in the songs in terms of structures, harmonies, melodies, counterpoint, rhythms, etc. And those kinds of things are what I listen to music for.

So too much hip-hop sounds to me like unfinished backing track vamps, with the "lead instrument" (the voice) primarily providing repetitive and not very creative rhythms. There's little chance that I'd like that better than something that I find more interesting in terms of harmonic material, etc.

Now, someone could do hip-hop that focuses more on these other things, and the hip-hop I like the best tends to be the hip-hop that focuses on that stuff at least a bit, but so far, I wouldn't say there's anyone doing "progressive" hip-hop akin to the progressive rock that I love. Where's the hip-hop equivalent to, say, King Crimson or Yes or The Art Bears or 7 for 4? There's a potential for doing that, but I don't think anyone has done it yet (and yes, I'm familiar with stuff like Lupe Fiasco, DJ Shadow, etc.)

[Black Jack22]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

I can maybe give some insight into another perspective on this.

While I do not dislike hip-hop--I actually like a large percentage of it okay--unless the approach to it changes a lot, I also can't imagine finding many hip-hop records that would ever be one of my favorite records rather than just "it's okay".

Why is that?

Well, it has absolutely nothing to do with what the lyrics are about. Rather, it has to do with the fact that lyrics are such a focus, period.

I do not see the semantic content of lyrics as a part of music per se. I tend to listen to vocals just like I'd listen to an instrument like a horn--like a saxophone, a trumpet, etc. I tend hear vocals purely as sound--vocalists might as well be singing in a language that I do not understand, I'd evaluate the music in exactly the same way.

So my frustration with hip-hop is that there is such an emphasis on lyrics, often at the expense of the other musical content. There's often relatively little going on in the songs in terms of structures, harmonies, melodies, counterpoint, rhythms, etc. And those kinds of things are what I listen to music for.

So too much hip-hop sounds to me like unfinished backing track vamps, with the "lead instrument" (the voice) primarily providing repetitive and not very creative rhythms. There's little chance that I'd like that better than something that I find more interesting in terms of harmonic material, etc.

Now, someone could do hip-hop that focuses more on these other things, and the hip-hop I like the best tends to be the hip-hop that focuses on that stuff at least a bit, but so far, I wouldn't say there's anyone doing "progressive" hip-hop akin to the progressive rock that I love. Where's the hip-hop equivalent to, say, King Crimson or Yes or The Art Bears or 7 for 4? There's a potential for doing that, but I don't think anyone has done it yet (and yes, I'm familiar with stuff like Lupe Fiasco, DJ Shadow, etc.)

You do not understand poetry because words are music. Words are pictures, music and rythmn. Just because you cannot hear it in a hip hop song, does not mean it does not exist.

Hip hop songs do have structure but the structure is based on groups of poetic lines and chorus.

There are hip hop songs with singing in them, but counterpoint(are you serious?) is irrelevant. Was not counterpoint not the main focal point of the classic, romantic and modern periods of classical music like it was inthe baroque era?

If you do not have the attention span to focus on what good hip hop artists are actually saying, then I can see why you do not like hip hop based on what you have said.

You are tonally based while others are poetically inclined. I am both. I did not understand this until I actually discovered a talent for rapping a few months ago and I am a jazz pianist who used to be a classical pianist.

You should observe some poetry readings to get the in depth scoop of poetry in general. There is even poetry that is recited to jazz music. Awesome stuff.

[Rachael84]

Old school rap I like. Today's, not so much at all. I like rap from the 80s since I can relate to it since a good amount of it was about NYC's condition at the time. I didn't live in any of the run-down areas, but drove through them and saw what it was like. They talk about what life was like then for those in the bad areas. Today I teach in the area where rap emerged, so I can see where the roots of rap emerged. I understand it more now, after being there everyday and seeing the effect of poverty on my students' families lives.

One of my favorite rap songs of all time, such a classic:


YouTube - Grandmaster Caz - South Bronx Subway Rap

[Tungsten_Udder]

Originally Posted by Black Jack22

You do not understand poetry because words are music.

I have no problem with words as sound being music. The semantic content of words, however, isn't music.

Words are pictures, music and rythmn.

The semantic content, which isn't music, can give you a mental picture of something, sure. And the sounds of the words have rhythm and can easily be mentally framed as music, sure.

Just because you cannot hear it in a hip hop song, does not mean it does not exist.

The reason that the semantic content isn't music is that it's not sound.

Hip hop songs do have structure

Yes. Definitely no disagreement there. What I commented on was a frustration with structure not being experimented with compositionally as much as I'd like it to be.

There are hip hop songs with singing in them,

I personally think that ALL vocal sounds (at least in any musical context, or mentally framed as such) are singing, including rapping, of course.

but counterpoint(are you serious?) is irrelevant.

Yes, I'm serious. I also think that hip-hop does have counterpoint in it (for counterpoint to occur, there simply needs to be more than one simultaneous melodic line in a way that is prominent--it can occur in any instruments). Again, as with structure, my frustration is that this isn't experimented with more.

Was not counterpoint not the main focal point of the classic, romantic and modern periods of classical music like it was inthe baroque era?

Counterpoint is prominent in classical among other genres, yes.

If you do not have the attention span to focus on what good hip hop artists are actually saying, then I can see why you do not like hip hop based on what you have said.

Oy, this is frustrating too! I typed "I do not dislike hip-hop" in my response for a reason--so someone wouldn't come along and assume that I do not like it. Everything I typed I intended to type that way because I believe it to be accurate.

You are tonally based while others are poetically inclined.

Well, I listen to music for the musical content--for the sound content. That includes words, but as sounds. It's not that I dislike poetry. I just do not consider it music insofar as we're talking about semantic content.

You should observe some poetry readings to get the in depth scoop of poetry in general.

I've been to plenty of poetry readings, I've written poetry, and I like a lot of it quite a bit. What I was talking about is that as music I like to hear certain things, and hip-hop often frustrates me to the extent that it can tend to overlook those things.

[Black Jack22]

Originally Posted by Tungsten_Udder

I have no problem with words as sound being music. The semantic content of words, however, isn't music. The semantic content, which isn't music, can give you a mental picture of something, sure. And the sounds of the words have rhythm and can easily be mentally framed as music, sure. The reason that the semantic content isn't music is that it's not sound. Yes. Definitely no disagreement there. What I commented on was a frustration with structure not being experimented with compositionally as much as I'd like it to be. I personally think that ALL vocal sounds (at least in any musical context, or mentally framed as such) are singing, including rapping, of course. Yes, I'm serious. I also think that hip-hop does have counterpoint in it (for counterpoint to occur, there simply needs to be more than one simultaneous melodic line in a way that is prominent--it can occur in any instruments). Again, as with structure, my frustration is that this isn't experimented with more. Counterpoint is prominent in classical among other genres, yes. Oy, this is frustrating too! I typed "I do not dislike hip-hop" in my response for a reason--so someone wouldn't come along and assume that I do not like it. Everything I typed I intended to type that way because I believe it to be accurate. Well, I listen to music for the musical content--for the sound content. That includes words, but as sounds. It's not that I dislike poetry. I just do not consider it music insofar as we're talking about semantic content.I've been to plenty of poetry readings, I've written poetry, and I like a lot of it quite a bit. What I was talking about is that as music I like to hear certain things, and hip-hop often frustrates me to the extent that it can tend to overlook those things.

You don't write hip hop poetry I am assuming so you are not qualified to say what it is or what it is not. I can because I not only write regular poetry but writing hip hop poetry is one of my most favorite things to do.

I can also freestyle off the top of my head.