Nirvana...overrated or what? (great song, Bon Jovi, 80's, single)

[toughguy]

I read this on Pitchfork's greatest 100 albums of the 90's, regarding Nirvana's Nevermind (which clocked in at #6):

"Sure, there will always be those who insist that Nevermind was more of cultural import than musical, but they will also be full of sh**: Nirvana are, a decade later, still regarded as the greatest and most legendary band of the 1990s. This band proved to a whole new generation that technical prowess has no bearing on quality, inspired their fans to seek out the music that slipped beneath the commercial radar, and then had the balls to be ridiculously, unthinkably f***ing brilliant. Anyone who hates this record today is just trying to be cool, and needs to be trying harder."

[ucfjtm]

I don't consider Nirvana to be overrated, but I also thought two similar Seattle grunge bands at the same time were much better - Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Nirvana worked for so many angst-ridden teens in the early 90's, especially since simple guitar riffs and lyrics made actually PLAYING the songs easy. Not many could sing like Layne Staley or jam like Jerry Cantrell, so it was much more difficult to gather around the party and play Alice in Chains. However, any kid with a little dedication and desire could pick up a guitar and start playing (and singing) Come As You Are in a day.

Like many aspects of entertainment, Cobain's death at the height of his career only made Nirvana more famous. If Layne Staley or Eddie Vedder had died in the mid-90's before alternative music faded from mainstream popularity, it would have been a much bigger deal for Alice in Chains' or Pearl Jam's legacy.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by toughguy

I read this on Pitchfork's greatest 100 albums of the 90's, regarding Nirvana's Nevermind (which clocked in at #6):

"Sure, there will always be those who insist that Nevermind was more of cultural import than musical, but they will also be full of sh**: Nirvana are, a decade later, still regarded as the greatest and most legendary band of the 1990s. This band proved to a whole new generation that technical prowess has no bearing on quality, inspired their fans to seek out the music that slipped beneath the commercial radar, and then had the balls to be ridiculously, unthinkably f***ing brilliant. Anyone who hates this record today is just trying to be cool, and needs to be trying harder."

Pitchfork is a joke. They're to the indie and Radiohead music scene what MTV and Rolling Stone magazine are to the mainstream music industry.

The big deal with Nirvana is that they were unlike anything that had come out in the mainstream at the time (I emphasize mainstream). Cobain did not ask for his popularity. They filled a niche that was needed in the music industry at the time. Most people didn't really relate to all of that crap that was in the mainstream in the 80s. Basically, Nirvana filled a niche that may seem cliche and overwrought now but that was grossly lacking at the time: angst. Despite what anyone may think of it, it's something that most everyone can relate to. There's also a huge difference between the corporate "emo" crap that is basically all just manufactured, scene angst, and "true" angst, where people actually speak about pain that people can relate to rather than just whining about how horrible their lives are. Nirvana falls more into the "true angst" category, when the whole corporate angst fad hadn't yet caught on. People tend to confuse any kind of angst with whining. Just because something is angsty doesn't mean it's whiny.

There's some of you people out there that complain about how Nirvana doesn't really speak to all these "spoiled suburban white kids because they don't know how well they've got it". That's just grossly oversimplifying life.

[toughguy]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Pitchfork is a joke. They're to the indie and Radiohead music scene what MTV and Rolling Stone magazine are to the mainstream music industry.

The big deal with Nirvana is that they were unlike anything that had come out in the mainstream at the time (I emphasize mainstream). Cobain did not ask for his popularity. They filled a niche that was needed in the music industry at the time. Most people didn't really relate to all of that crap that was in the mainstream in the 80s. Basically, Nirvana filled a niche that may seem cliche and overwrought now but that was grossly lacking at the time: angst. Despite what anyone may think of it, it's something that most everyone can relate to. There's also a huge difference between the corporate "emo" crap that is basically all just manufactured, scene angst, and "true" angst, where people actually speak about pain that people can relate to rather than just whining about how horrible their lives are. Nirvana falls more into the "true angst" category, when the whole corporate angst fad hadn't yet caught on. People tend to confuse any kind of angst with whining. Just because something is angsty doesn't mean it's whiny.

There's some of you people out there that complain about how Nirvana doesn't really speak to all these "spoiled suburban white kids because they don't know how well they've got it". That's just grossly oversimplifying life.

I agree with your criticism of Pitchfork, but I thought that the author articulated what was good about Nirvana pretty accurately.

[victorianpunk]

Originally Posted by toughguy

I agree with your criticism of Pitchfork, but I thought that the author articulated what was good about Nirvana pretty accurately.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. and I am not saying that Nirvana was overrated now, as I have been saying this my whole life since I first heard them while I was in junior high during the 90s. Like I said, for me, KMFDM, Ministry, and a thing called "Coldwave" will always be what defined the 90s, as that is what me and most of my "cyperpunk" worshipping, Vampire: The Masquerade playing friends listened to, while the preppy kids all listened to Nirvana or what ever other non-threating crap played on the radio.

For those "cool" preppy kids, on the honor roll, driving the car daddy-kins got for them to the game that they're the star athlete in, "Smells like Teen Spirit" is the anthem of the 90s...for kids like me, who wore all black, played RPGs, read books on the occult and socialism and anarchism and William Gibson and Anne Rice novels and played violent video games, Ministry's "So What?" was our anthem.

Had Al Jourgensen had shot himself and not Cobain, I am sure everyone would be talking about how great Ministry was and not Nirvana.

[Interpol76]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

Sorry, but I completely disagree. and I am not saying that Nirvana was overrated now, as I have been saying this my whole life since I first heard them while I was in junior high during the 90s. Like I said, for me, KMFDM, Ministry, and a thing called "Coldwave" will always be what defined the 90s, as that is what me and most of my "cyperpunk" worshipping, Vampire: The Masquerade playing friends listened to, while the preppy kids all listened to Nirvana or what ever other non-threating crap played on the radio.

For those "cool" preppy kids, on the honor roll, driving the car daddy-kins got for them to the game that they're the star athlete in, "Smells like Teen Spirit" is the anthem of the 90s...for kids like me, who wore all black, played RPGs, read books on the occult and socialism and anarchism and William Gibson and Anne Rice novels and played violent video games, Ministry's "So What?" was our anthem.

Had Al Jourgensen had shot himself and not Cobain, I am sure everyone would be talking about how great Ministry was and not Nirvana.

You must have had some pretty cool preppy kids at your school. The preps hated Nirvana at my school....they generally listened to hip hop, country, or classic rock...while the goths were into stuff like NIN, Marilyn Manson, Hole, Nirvana, Skinny Puppy, and so forth...

As far as Al Jourgensen goes, I agree that he would have been immortalized to an extent has he shot himself before he started making crappy records (Filth pig and beyond).

[jfre81]

Yeah, I never knew any Nirvana-listening preppies growing up either. You must've had some unusual preppies in your school.

[truckingbronco]

Originally Posted by ucfjtm

I don't consider Nirvana to be overrated, but I also thought two similar Seattle grunge bands at the same time were much better - Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam.

Nirvana worked for so many angst-ridden teens in the early 90's, especially since simple guitar riffs and lyrics made actually PLAYING the songs easy. Not many could sing like Layne Staley or jam like Jerry Cantrell, so it was much more difficult to gather around the party and play Alice in Chains. However, any kid with a little dedication and desire could pick up a guitar and start playing (and singing) Come As You Are in a day.

Like many aspects of entertainment, Cobain's death at the height of his career only made Nirvana more famous. If Layne Staley or Eddie Vedder had died in the mid-90's before alternative music faded from mainstream popularity, it would have been a much bigger deal for Alice in Chains' or Pearl Jam's legacy.

I agree that AIC and Pearl Jam were/are better bands than Nirvana, but I wouldn't put them in the same catagory. Pearl Jam was unique in its own way, more of a rock band in my opinion, and AIC was a metal band. Really, besides being from Seattle, they had little in common. There is a live performance of Man In The Box on YouTube that's pretty amazing.

Nirvana is fine in my opinion...there is better and there is worse, however, they were the silver bullet that killed hair metal. That could be a result of their music or their marketing.

[msnorman67]

YouTube - Nirvana - Some Artists Talking About Nirvana


YouTube - Nirvana - Where Did You Sleep Last Night Live

[toughguy]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

Sorry, but I completely disagree. and I am not saying that Nirvana was overrated now, as I have been saying this my whole life since I first heard them while I was in junior high during the 90s. Like I said, for me, KMFDM, Ministry, and a thing called "Coldwave" will always be what defined the 90s, as that is what me and most of my "cyperpunk" worshipping, Vampire: The Masquerade playing friends listened to, while the preppy kids all listened to Nirvana or what ever other non-threating crap played on the radio.

For those "cool" preppy kids, on the honor roll, driving the car daddy-kins got for them to the game that they're the star athlete in, "Smells like Teen Spirit" is the anthem of the 90s...for kids like me, who wore all black, played RPGs, read books on the occult and socialism and anarchism and William Gibson and Anne Rice novels and played violent video games, Ministry's "So What?" was our anthem.

Had Al Jourgensen had shot himself and not Cobain, I am sure everyone would be talking about how great Ministry was and not Nirvana.

You sound like you went to an atypical high school. Perhaps Smells like Teen Spirit was a popular radio anthem, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't find cheerleaders blasting In Utero in Daddy's car. You seriously need to stop dwelling on your high school experiences and grow up.